5 Reasons Why Seattle Should Trade Lopez
by Jon ~ January 25th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
#1: Opportunity cost – If the Seattle Mariners decide to trade Jose Lopez, his replacement isn’t likely to be much worse, if at all. I’d take him over Orlando Hudson, Adam Kennedy and maybe even Felipe Lopez in a vacuum, but it’s not that simple when you broaden the scope a little bit. The replacement plus the return in trade (a starting pitcher or left fielder, presumably) is almost certainly more valuable than Lopez plus whatever in-house candidate is used at another position position. For example:
Orlando Hudson (free agent signing) and Francisco Liriano (obtained for Lopez plus scraps) are greater than Lopez and in-house rotation candidates Jason Vargas, Doug Fister, et al (though, as mentioned in the previous post I’m wary of Liriano); or Hudson and Josh Willingham (obtained in Lopez trade, plus anything else you would get) are greater than Lopez, risking injury to Milton Bradley by playing him in the field against lefties and giving Ken Griffey more playing time than he deserves.
#2: He isn’t a good fit for the ballpark – As we know, Safeco Field gobbles up right handed power hitters for breakfast. Some have made the case that Lopez is able to skirt Safeco’s effect as well as any other right handed power hitter because of the way he pulls all of his homers right down the line. But while he has been pretty good at flipping the ball over the hand operated scoreboard, he isn’t capable of hitting the ball very far (average home run distance for 2009 was just 383 feet), meaning he leaves more than his fair share of balls on the warning track for easy flyouts or the occasional double (although most doubles that land on the warning track are line drives that didn’t have a chance to leave the yard anyway). He falls just short in left field more than other Mariner righty double digit home run hitters the last couple of years.
The numbers reflect this as well. In 2009 he hit .229/.254/.387 with 8 home runs over 321 plate appearances at Safeco Field. On the road he hit .313/.348/.535 with 17 home runs over 341 plate appearances. Exactly how is Lopez one of the rare right handed hitters who can perform at Safeco? The argument undoubtedly comes from his outlier 2008 where he hit much better at home (both power and average), but for every other year he has dramatic home/away splits that have him doing much better on the road. And now that Lopez views himself as a power hitter I’m sure he’ll continue to do better away from the Safe.
#3: Improvements are not guaranteed - Typically, when you have a 25 year old that hit 25 homers and drove in 96 runners you may think you’ve got a star on your hands, and many fans like to place Lopez on the typical developmental arc and project big things in the future. That isn’t fair of course, because while many players peak at age 26-28 and begin to decline at 32-33, many do not. There is no telling whether or not Lopez has reached his peak or if the best is yet to come.
As previously mentioned, Safeco Field limits him. No matter how good he might get, he’ll always be better elsewhere without a radical change of skill set. That is something that seems to be lost on a lot of fans. Yes, he’s an asset on the road, but for half the games he is a terrible player. And no matter how good he could be in a vacuum, he will not get much better in Seattle. He will blossom elsewhere. That would be tough to see as a fan and we’d all have to put up with whiners saying the Mariners gave up too early on him a la Carlos Guillen, but that should be used as a selling point rather than a sticking point. No matter how good he gets, Safeco will put a ceiling on his progress. There is a reason why GM Jack Zduriencik has made such an effort to bring in players more suited to the ballpark.
You can also include his defensive uncertainty as part of his limited upside. We’ve all been expecting a decline in his defensive skills given his body type and desire to bulk up and be a power hitter. To his credit, conditioning was part once a major part of the assumption that he’d have to move off the position and I’d say that is less of a concern now. He still doesn’t look as athletic of the guys ahead of him on the UZR leaderboards, but I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that he looked significantly less doughy in years prior, and there have been plenty of reports that not his new willingness to put extra work in. The departure of Yuni Betancourt probably helps in that regard as well. Also, by being sandwiched by Jack Wilson and Casey Kotchman going forward, you’ve got to think he’ll be inspired to up his game. So while his likelihood of moving off the position in the near future may not be as imminent as it has been in recent offseasons, it’s still something to watch. If he has to move to third base chances are his value drops (unless he can be a significantly better fielder at third base than he is at second base, which I suppose is a possibility), and if he moves to first base his value is completely shot.
No matter how much strength he has, his swing as it is now isn’t particularly conducive to big home run power, which should be evident by his home run distances and lack of power to center and right. There is no ferocity in the swing, very little hip/shoulder separation, and rather than striding towards the ball he actually strides backwards. He’s gotten really good at rotating his hips and shoulders around, dragging the barrel of his bat through the zone and getting the barrel on the ball with just enough on it for a short home run to left. Even when he gets a meatball right down the middle– like the Bobby Jenks home run late in the year– that ferocity barely jumps up. He’s not going to pound a hanging breaking ball the way Adrian Beltre would jump on a mistake and hit it 420+ feet. He’s going to hit a hanger the same way he hits an inside fastball. There are tweaks that can be made to give him more power, but there is no guarantee that those changes are made. As he matures he can gain some strength and turn a few of those warning track balls into homers, but he isn’t primed for a breakout the way other 25 year olds with similar numbers might be.
The biggest reason why I don’t believe in Lopez’s upside is his approach at the plate and the approach opposing pitchers are employing. We all know that Lopez is a free swinger, and of the biggest hackers in baseball right now. We all know that he’s among the worst in baseball in terms of walk percentage and pitches per plate appearance. So it’s no surprise that he saw the fewest number of strikes in 2009 compared to any other point in his career. But it’s concerning that while seeing fewer strikes, he swung more often than years prior.
But what is worse is the way pitchers are pitching him. Lopez makes his living on fastballs, and specifically fastballs middle in. But this past season Lopez saw fewer fastballs than at any point in his career, and if you look at the scatter plots you’ll see that pitchers are going more and more to the outside. As long as Lopez keeps swinging at everything, pitchers will continue to throw fewer fastballs, fewer strikes and fewer inside pitches. Sure, the occasional mistake will still float into his wheelhouse and he’ll put it over the fence, but at some point you have to think that his batting average and overall slugging percentage will take a hit, which is where his offensive value lies. And I’m not sure Lopez can adjust his approach. We saw “more patient” Lopez under John McLaren, but all that meant was taking the first pitch, usually for a quick strike. There is room for his fastball percentage to drop another 5-10%, and what happens then?
#4: His trade value doesn’t figure to get much higher – While much of the blogosphere and presumably the Mariners themselves aren’t especially fond of the way Lopez plays the game, it’s still obvious that he’s a bargain at his price. But all good things must come to an end, and Lopez’s contract only goes through 2011 (if you assume the Mariners pick up his option year, which they likely would). Yes, that’s still plenty of time to trade him, but every day he plays with the Mariners he is less valuable to a prospective trade partner.
It’s simple enough. With two years left until free agency Mark Teixeira gets the Texas Rangers Neifi Perez Feliz, Elvis Andrus, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Matt Harrison and a minor league reliever from the Atlanta Braves. With one year left, he gets the Braves Casey Kotchman and a minor league reliever. That isn’t completely fair considering the Rangers made a helluva deal and the Braves made a poor one (at the time, not necessarily in retrospect), but the point remains. There are exceptions (like the Matt Holliday deals), but for the most part I think it’s safe to say that the shorter the contract the weaker the return, depending on the market.
Lopez’s trade value isn’t particularly high right now not because of what he’s capable of but because there aren’t many teams looking for second basemen and there are strong options available via free agency. How much will that change by next offseason?
At this point in the offseason, the only teams that look like they’re seeking a new second baseman are the Minnesota Twins, Colorado Rockies and Washington Nationals (who would actually prefer a shortstop so they could move Christian Guzman to second base). Other teams that could think about getting a second baseman but are more or less content with their internal options are the Detroit Tigers, Los Angeles Dodgers and maybe a couple of others. Free agent second basemen include Orlando Hudson, Adam Kennedy and Felipe Lopez, and at one point also included Placido Polanco and Kelly Johnson. The trade market also includes Dan Uggla, who is viewed as a slightly better option compared to J Lopez, and Alberto Callaspo, a comparable player, among others (no way of knowing every player that can be had).
How does that compare to next offseason? Obviously, things can change quickly. Players can stop being productive or get seriously injured, or trades can open up different holes, but as of now there only appears to be three or four teams that will really be looking for second base help (Astros, Diamondbacks, Mets, Pirates) and a handful of other teams that could be looking depending on what happens in 2010.
There won’t be near the second base depth on the free agent market. There are no players that are clear starters, and the best options appear to be Aki Iwamura, Julio Lugo, Juan Uribe and Kaz Matsui. It’s really tough to try and figure out who could be available in trade this far out, but there are enough guys nearing free agency (Weeks, Phillips, Sanchez, DeRosa, Cano, Uggla) that there could be some big names on the trade market.
So as things stand a year out it looks like there could be an improved trade market for Lopez (assuming his defense allows him to continue being viewed as a second baseman), but it still doesn’t look like a market in which second basemen will be in high demand. Lopez’s demand could be higher than it is this offseason, but would it translate to higher trade value with only one year left on his contract as opposed to two? That’s certainly debatable, and I’ve got to think it’s a wash at best.
#5: Extending him isn’t an option – As mentioned, Lopez is a bargain right now. But with good vanity numbers (HR, RBI, AVG) he could be in line for a substantial raise via free agency, depending on the market. If he can get himself $8-10M per year he’s not nearly as profitable, especially if you are with me and don’t believe in his perceived upside.
More importantly, Carlos Triunfel and Dustin Ackley are very close to the big leagues. These are the types of prospects that the Mariners should be more willing to take a chance on (as opposed to going with a proven player with less upside) and will be looking for an infield spot. Shortstop isn’t likely for either player, and Chone Figgins will be filling one of third base or second base, leaving Lopez’s spot. There is little reason to keep Lopez around beyond 2011.
…
It’s hard for me to find reasons for Seattle to keep Jose Lopez assuming that there is a beneficial trade out there and that a suitable replacement can be had for a fair price. He may blossom elsewhere, which would be hard to watch, but the bottom line is that he is unlikely to blossom that way in Seattle. If you love him, let him go… Ha!
18 Responses to 5 Reasons Why Seattle Should Trade Lopez
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Dustin Shires
January 25th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Not to nit-pick, because the article is virtually flawless, but Carlos Triunfel is close to the MLB? We’re talking about the same Carlos Triunfel that is a week younger than me, who just missed an entire season of development?
Jon Reply:
January 25th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
A top prospect who is playing in the high minors is “very close to the big leagues” in my book. Could get a cup of coffee in 2010 and could break in at some point in 2011 if he’s not traded. Similar timetable to Ackley, I’d say, especially considering Ackley is taking on a new position.
They’re both expected to see the big leagues before Lopez’s contract is up, and both are potential full-timers by 2012, when Lopez would be a free agent.
eastcoastmariner
January 25th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Great post Jon. For some odd reason, I have some strange sort of attachment to Lopez and would be sad to see him go. That said, if he gets us someone like Liriano or Willingham, I’ll escort him to the airport and pay his plane ticket!
Gut feeling though, do you think he actually gets traded before spring training?
csiems
January 25th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
My biggest issue with trading Lopez is that you are opening a hole at second base to fill a partial hole in the starting rotation, which is rarely a good strategy. Granted that you can approximate his production through free agency in 2010, but what about 2011? Will Hudson/Kennedy/Felipe Lopez still be ideal in another year?
One other upside to keeping Lopez that no one talks about, will be the compensatory draft pick(s) when he leaves. Both Hudson and Polanco were Type A free agents this year despite similar production to Jose over the last two years. Added to that, Jose has more power than either of those two put together, and we all know that the Elias rankings love home runs.
There is a lot of hidden value in a cheap, league average infielder, with SOME upside (though as Jon notes maybe not as much as we think), who will be ranked highly when he departs.
Mariners121212 Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 7:59 am
Ackley should be ready to start at 2B next year, which is exactly why a 1 year deal would be good for Hudson/Kennedy/Lopez.
csiems Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 9:50 am
This statement is very optimistic.
petermag
January 25th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
I’ve gone back and forth on this. Right now I’m on the side that is against trading Jose. No, he is not ideal and no he doesnt totally fit the system that Jack and Wak are implementing. However, I think it would be haphazard to trade him just to trade him. As you mentioned, the market is not good for trading 2baseman this offseason.
I say hold onto him and trade him at the end of this year. I doubt the secondbase market can be anymore flooded than this year. I don’t think he hurts that much. Plus I see Ackley as the secondbaseman come 2011. Also, on that note, I’m coming to believe that Triunfel is not going to be a Mariner in the future. I see him as a cornerstone in a trade in the next couple years. It seems he slots best at 2nd and 3rd and if Ackley works out, they are set at those positions for years to come.
200tang Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Triunfel might fit better or just as well in a corner OF position because of his arm. His bat would certainly look better at second base, though. At 2B arm strength isn’t quite as important as almost any other position on the diamond.
I agree that he may be the key piece in a trade once you can get full value from him and he’s close to the major leagues. Kind of sucks because I was hoping to see him in a Mariners uniform one day, but oh well.
Jon Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 12:06 am
I think arm strength is an underrated skill for second baseman. For bigger guys, it allows them to play back and make up for it with a strong throw. One of the reasons Jose Lopez isn’t rated a terrible defender yet is because he can play deep thanks to his strong arm.
Triunfel would definitely get the most use out of his arm on the left side of the infield or RF, but it wouldn’t be wasted at second.
docmilo
January 26th, 2010 at 7:44 am
Jon,
If you’re going to use his 2009 Safeco numbers to explain why he isn’t a good fit at Safeco, you have to explain his 2008 Safeco Field numbers of .313/.329/.511.
If Lopez can put his 08 home numbers together with his 09 road numbers he is a top 5 MLB 2nd baseman.
I for one would like to see him get that chance.
Scott Weber
January 26th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Look at his career numbers at Safeco – 2008 is a clear outlier, the only season in his Mariner career when he was better at home.
Raleigh
January 26th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
It’d be tough to see Lopez leave, for mostly sentimental reasons. I can remember back in that horrible 04 season, when he was basically the only bright spot on the entire team, besides Ichiro. He’s been a personal favorite of mine since he entered the majors. But it’s clear he’s not a fit for this organazation, and I agree that his stock isn’t going to get much higher and now is the time to trade. That is, if we can set up a solid trade and sign a quality replacement, as said in the article.
sodomojo95
January 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Factual correction: The Rangers traded Mark Teixeira and Ron Mahay for Elvis Andrus, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, and Beau Jones. Not sure how Neifi Perez got included in that deal
Jon Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Whoops.
sodomojo95
January 26th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Also I don’t understand this logic: “It’s hard for me to find reasons for Seattle to keep Jose Lopez assuming that there is a beneficial trade out there and that a suitable replacement can be had for a fair price.”
I feel the opportunity for a “beneficial trade” and “suitable replacement [via free agency]” almost contradict each other. As stated by the blog earlier, this is certainly a buyers market. There are simply too many free agents with too few holes for teams to fill. And this is no more evident than by the 2B market. There’s a surplus of free agent 2B, (enough that Mark Loretta was forced to retirement, and it’s not like Orlando Cabrera is getting countless offers to play SS so his name might be added to the 2B market) and not enough teams that need 2B.
Ultimately if Orlando Hudson, Adam Kennedy, and Felipe Lopez are of equal value to Jose Lopez and are available to the Mariners for a “fair price,” then they’re also availble to the Twins and Nats at that same fair price. So why would the Twins give up a Fransisco Liriano and why would the Nats give up a Josh Willingham if their 2B holes can be filled with similar talent via free agency without losing any assets?
I feel like these suggested trade scenarios would require Jack Z to do some serious duping of other GMs to convince them Jose Lopez is significantly better than the free agent alternatives. Sometimes it seems we get caught in a Mariner’s-centered vacuum where we don’t put ourselves in the other team’s shoes. (see Ben Sheets – of all the M’s fans who said “let’s sign Ben Sheets,” how many put themselves in Billy Beane’s shoes? I certainly didn’t.)
docmilo
January 26th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
His numbers in 2008 were real. You can’t ignore them. Lopez’s biggest problem so far with the M’s have been all the coaching changes and different philosophies that have been dropped on him.
There is just a good of chance that he puts it all together and hits on the road and at home than not. If he dose put it together, he’s a top 5 2nd baseman. Then trade him.
htownm
January 29th, 2010 at 7:57 am
Congrats Jon – you got a plug on MLBtraderumors. Keep up the great work!
twinsgeek
January 29th, 2010 at 8:43 am
As a Twins blogger, I gotta say, we’ve heard nothing about a potential Liriano/Lopez swap. It might have been possible early in the offseason, but the way Francisco is pitching in the DWL this year, there is no chance for it now. Just something to keep in mind when trying to figure out what a beneficial trade would be.
There is also the problem of a “suitable replacement”. If he’s available for the Mariners (i.e. Hudson, Lopez, Cabrera, even Kennedy), he’s available to the Twins. There is no reason to give up anything to trade for Lopez.
Just two cents from the other side…