A Meandering Ben Sheets Post

by ~ January 20th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

Ben Sheets has been one of the hottest potential targets to talk about for Seattle Mariner fans this offseason, but I’ve managed to go without mentioning him much on the site. But it’s time to broach the subject now that we know the Mariners were one of the teams in attendance for his Tuesday session.

“I was impressed,” said Seattle Mariners scout and former Major League catcher John Stearns, following Sheets’ outing. “Ben was free and easy, throwing the ball really well with not too much effort. He had good velocity. I was especially impressed with his curve ball. He’s got a plus Major League curve ball with a lot of depth to it.

“It looked to me like he was healthy, and health is the key issue here. I’m going to give him a strong recommendation to our organization.”

(Link)

Sheets, as you know, is a great starting pitcher.  He has one of the most effective fastballs in baseball to go with solid secondary stuff and he doesn’t walk a ton of hitters.  He was an 8 WAR pitcher in 2004 as a 25 year old and has been been among the game’s best ever since when healthy.  Of course, health is a major issue for Sheets as he’s missed significant time on the DL six times in his career and missed all of 2009 recovering from non-Tommy John elbow surgery in February.

These are scary injuries.  The elbow is bad enough, but he has multiple shoulder/rotator cuff strains and tendinitis diagnoses, which may be more concerning. Shoulder injuries are bad news. If you’re into mechanical analysis, Chris O’Leary took a quick look before the 2009 season, noting that Sheets may be suffering from the same timing problem as other long-armers and that there is some hyperabduction (high elbow) there as well.  But you don’t need mechanical analysis to know Sheets is in trouble.

Supposedly Sheets wants about $10M plus incentives and a second year player option.  Some fear he will indeed get that much given the amount of interest, but that is a ton of guaranteed money for someone with such a detailed injury history, and especially someone that didn’t even play last season.  How can he ask for that much after missing a whole season?  The answer is simple: there are enough teams interested that someone may be willing to pay it.  Still, it boggles my mind that a guy in his position could be getting so much.

That said, Sheets has been good enough that he can justify a $10M base salary even if he doesn’t make it through the year.  The guy was a 4 WAR pitcher in 2006 when he only pitched 106 innings!  That year he pitched for roughly half a season and still ended up high on the leaderboards surrounded by guys like Felix Hernandez, Greg Maddux, Dan Haren, Jake Peavy and Carlos Zambrano.  FanGraphs hasn’t valued his performance any lower than $9M since they started keeping track, despite pitching just 156, 106, 141 innings over a three year span. He’s very good, even if he can’t make 35 starts a year.  But that was all with the shoulder and other miscellaneous injuries.  Now we’re throwing his first elbow injury into the mix.

And I think he can get close to that.  Teams seemed impressed enough by his workout that I highly doubt they’ll treat him like a guy who just missed a whole season.  I doubt they’ll even treat him like Rich Harden.

Sheets is a gamble; no doubt about it.  But there is a decent chance that he can let Seattle at least get their fair share out of him, so that’s something.  And even if he gets hurt late in the year, missing the stretch and playoffs, at least he would (in theory) help them get off to a good start and into a position to be buyers at the trade deadline, so there’s that.  And, if you’re lucky, he takes his annual trip to the DL around midseason, so that he can help the team get off to a good start and help in the playoffs.  Again, a gamble.

Sheets would make for one helluva rotation.  Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, Ben Sheets, Ryan Rowland-Smith, Ian Snell, holy wow.  Sheets would also– based on most estimates, and assuming he’s going to get close to $10M guaranteed– take up Seattle’s remaining payroll.  Could Seattle add an outfielder and sign Sheets?  That remains to be seen. Of course, there are other major issues, like would Sheets, a southeastern guy, want to come to the northwest?  There was some talk a while back that he wasn’t enthused about the idea, but he obviously has a relationship with Zduriencik and I’m sure Z could make a great pitch as to why Seattle is the premier place to rebuild value (though if he gets close to $10M, that may not be as much of an issue).

I’m not sure where this post is going.  It’s kind of all over the place, so I’ll cut it off short and sweet.  If the Mariners signed Ben Sheets for $10M I’d be okay with it.  More than okay with it, really.  I’d be very excited, just also very nervous.  The cheaper the better.  We’ll see.

  • Should the Mariners be pursuing Ben Sheets?
  • What is the most money you would be willing to give him?
  • What kind of money do you expect him to get?

  • 200tang

    I’m torn on whether or not I would give him 10MM, but I honestly don’t think he’ll get more than that. Although, I guess Omar is still looking for a SP and he fits right in with their injury prone players :p

    I watched the MLBN video of him today and he said he wants a clubhouse he can bring his kids too. Now, I obviously have no idea how much he values that, but you have to at least admit that it does make us a slightly better fit with Ken Griffey Jr. than some other clubs. I’d also try my best to show him how great this park & defense is to get his career back on track. The only reason I think he won’t come here is if he hates the NW (very possible) or if he gets blown away by someones offer. This team just seems like too much of a fit, although I said the same thing about Harden.

    If we did get him, though, I honestly can’t think of a rotation that has an advantage against a Felix/Lee/Sheets playoff rotation. SF is probably as close as it comes, but I don’t think their #3 will be better than Sheets and I think Lee is better than Cain.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I thought Harden was a lock too. Perfect fit, plus he apparently was a Mariners fan growing up in the NW. That was a shocking development, for sure.

  • fungineer99

    Jon – How would you compare the risk/reward between Bedard and Sheets? My initial take is as follows:

    - Bedard is 6 months younger. More significantly has only pitched 822 IP versus 1428 IP for Sheets
    - Both coming off serious injuries although I don’t have a take on which injury is more debilitating or has a lower track record of full recovery
    - Bedard may not be available until mid-season against a possible full (albeit) injury plagued season of Sheets
    - Bedard has at least played here already and has made noises about wanting to come back. If he can be had for $5m/pa, would that be pro-rated to $2m/pa for a half-season? We don’t know if Sheets wants to come here although as you mentioned, it’s a great environment for re-building value

    My instinct, assuming Bedard is on the way to recovery is that a second-half of a healthier Bedard at possibly 25% of the cost of a full Sheets season, might be more appealing from a value perspective.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      Bedard is coming back from a labrum tear in his shoulder. That is significantly more serious than Sheet’s elbow surgery. I would think that $2M guaranteed for Bedard is about where the ceiling is. I’d definitely take a chance on Bedard. Hell, I’d take Sheets AND Bedard and hope that their injuries came at different times.

  • ernier

    I would sign Sheets for 8m with incentives. I know that’s a high base salary, but as long as it didn’t include a guaranteed 2nd year I think it’s worth the risk. I’d also try and sign Xavier Nady as well. I know we probably can’t afford both, but if we did I think we’d be the front runners in the AL West and if we made the playoffs a 1,2,3 of Felix, Lee and Sheets would be tough to beat.

  • wazzy

    Getting sheets would be cool, but what does everyone think of wang? I mean, he’s had a rough go the past few years, so perhaps he’s broken. Is there any chance he could rebound in a new environment? If so, how much do you think he’d cost?

    • 200tang

      I really like Wang (insert joke here), but he’s someone like Bedard that you probably wait until they can pitch before you sign them. To be honest though, given the choice between him & Bedard this year I’d rather have Wang and his sinker in front of our defense.

  • http://www.marinercentral.com Lonnie

    I honestly think that if there are more than two teams bidding on Sheets Seattle would have to overpay to get him. Since there is so much interest, I believe that that scenario is very likely. I don’t see Zduriencik over paying for ANYONE, so the odds of bringing in Sheets is slim at best.

    If give a choice between Sheets and Bedard, I’ll go with Sheets. Again, it is just a sinking feeling, but I think that Bedard’s days of being an effective starter are over. He may sputter out a quality start on occasion, but I’m willing to bet that he will never reach his career norms again.

    So, if Sheets is slim, and Bedard is too injured, then who should the M’s get? Or, do they need to get anyone? Does a rotation of Felix, Lee, RR-S, Snell, and fodder sound like a competative group? It does to me.

    I like the fact that Washburn is a fall-back option. I liked him when he was with the team before and I feel that he has a season or two left in his left arm. I would not be against picking him up, especially on the cheap.

    Lonnie

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I could be okay with Washburn at $5M or less. No more than that, though. Gotta remember that he’s coming off of surgery too, and he’s no lock to put in a high number of quality innings.

  • ernier

    I think that it will come down to the Mets and M’s for Sheets and he’ll go to the Mets because they’re desperate for pitching and will overpay for him. The Mets are a mess, but it would be good for Sheets to play in the NL at a pitchers park like Citi field.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      With that outfield defense, I bet the argument can be made that Citi Field is a hitter’s park. lol

  • ernier

    Yea, you’re right. Especially while Beltran is out. Maybe we can use that to sell Sheets on why the M’s and Safeco will be better for him.

  • jeremytk42

    I’ve been really hoping we sign Sheets for a while now. That would give us a rotation of three legitimate #1 starters….unreal. You would think that Seattle would be enticing for a pitcher coming off an injury and trying to prove he still can be an elite starter. Pitching in Safeco with our D has got to be enticing to him.

    I could see him staying in the NL though since he knows the league well and wouldn’t be surprised if he landed in St. Louis, especially with Dave Duncan there.

    Just say no to Jarrod Washburn….please……

  • http://proballnw.com Dustin Shires

    I honestly think we’re gonna be surprised by the contract he signs. I don’t think anybody out there [except the Mets, can't count them out on anything] would guarantee him a base of $10M. A base of 6M or 7M makes sense, with quite the incentive to boost his contract.

    The kicker, to me, would be the option year. The Mariners, in my opinion, if they’re going to add the option, need to make it a team option. Don’t know if Sheets would accept that. If not, cool. I can live without him. But I don’t want such an injury riddled pitcher holding the key to the option.

    Just my take…

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I keep thinking the same, but it’s those “dumb” wild card teams that throw a wrench into it. The smarter teams aren’t going to want to give him that much, so Sheets is probably heading to an overbidder if it’s all about money, or will take $6-7M+ incentives for a better fit.

  • Coug1990

    We all remember when the Rangers kept bidding against themselves when the signed Alex Rodriguez way back when. So, nothing surprises me.

    All it takes is one dumb GM to over pay and make no mistake, 95% of all players will always go to whomever offers the most money.