Pineda, Campos Traded For Montero & Noesi

by ~ January 13th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

The trade isn’t finalized quite yet, but all reports are saying that Michael Pineda and pitching prospect Jose Campos have been traded to New York for Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi. There are stray rumors that others (including Ivan Nova, who would be a real coup) may be involved in the deal as well, but this appears to be the core of the trade. I find it very amusing that amid the immense Prince Fielder speculation this off-season, the roster just got overhauled with virtually no rumors preceding the deal’s announcement until news of the trade blew up on Twitter. But that’s not really important right now.

What is important is that the Mariners just traded their second best pitcher for a hitting prospect that is instantly the best power threat on the team and probably the most talented hitter in the organization. While much of Montero’s allure is tied up in his potential, he was brilliant in limited at-bats during his brief major league stint last season. He’s also major league ready: he spent 2011 in Triple-A simply because the Yankees didn’t have a place to play him regularly. No matter how anyone feels about who won the trade, there isn’t much doubt that Montero can really hit. Kevin Goldstein, Baseball Prospectus’ minor league maven rated him the number one prospect in the Yankees system last year and scouts universally praise his ability to hit for average as well as power. 

The concern is that the M’s have lost a lot of security by dealing Pineda for a talented, but unproven player. It certainly does hurt to lose a star like Pineda, but I think the M’s can actually absorb the loss. First, for as good of a season as he had, there are still a couple of reasons to be conservative with Pineda’s projection going forward. He has had a few injuries in previous years, which is troublesome considering the attrition rate among pitching prospects.

More troubling is that Pineda’s changeup never really developed, rendering him a two-pitch pitcher. Obviously he enjoyed some success with only two pitches, but there’s a reason most pitchers have a deeper arsenal, and if either his fastball or slider lose any bite, he’d be in line for some regression. Beyond Pineda himself, the M’s have a pretty deep stable of pitching prospects (Danny Hultzen, James Paxton, and Taijuan Walker are the most decorated) and they already have a natural advantage with developing pitchers, on account of Safeco Field. So yes, losing Pineda is a blow, but you have to give some to get some, and the M’s got a pretty good prospect in Montero.

There will be time for more nuanced analysis of this deal throughout the rest of the off-season, but for now, I have a couple more bullet point thoughts:

  • First, with Montero joining Mike Carp and Justin Smoak as first base/DH types on the team, you’d have to think that the M’s are out of the Prince Fielder sweepstakes. Jack Z has been known to surprise everyone before, so you can’t rule anything out, but Fielder doesn’t seem to make sense for this club anymore.
  • I think it will be real interesting to see whether Fielder or Montero has a more productive next six years. I’d lean towards Fielder, particularly if Montero is only a DH, but I’d bet it’s actually fairly close. Certainly in terms of a WAR/$, Montero is a much, much, much more appealing addition to the lineup.
  • Most reports about Montero’s defense behind the plate are negative to the point that many have already started calling him a designated hitter. I’d assume the Mariners will try him as a catcher initially, but I wouldn’t expect him to stick there. However, after watching Rob Johnson and Miguel Olivo for a couple of years, I’m not sure we as fans would notice much of a drop-off if they did decide to play Montero behind the plate.
  • Hector Noesi, the other player in the deal, could compete for a rotation spot in 2012. He was a starter all the way up through the minors, and he even started a couple games for New York last season. He’s not much of a strike out pitcher, but he fits the mold of a control specialist, fourth starter type. After briefly scanning his minor league numbers and a couple scouting reports, it looks like he compares well with Blake Beavan. He walks more hitters than Beavan, but he also misses more bats, and will thus be a little less reliant on batted ball variability.
  • It hurts to lose Jose Campos, but again, there is a lot of pitching depth in the minor league system, and Campos is years away from Seattle. He has a great arm, but it’s just too early to rigorously evaluate what the M’s traded away here.

That’s all I’ve got for now. More coming…


  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E767K2E2PSUG47JG5BB4AJJFUE TJ

    Thanks for pointing out the fact that we may have gotten someone more productive, or as productive as Fielder over the next 6 years for a lot less money.

  • Anonymous

    I like the trade. We desperately needed a RH hitter especially one who goes to all fields. Maybe Montero will be a 1B/ DH/ C, Smoak 1B/DH, Carp LF/DH. What is important is that Montero can hit and that is wnat M’s need. Jack Z’s approach is to stockpile pitching and then trade them for the best available young hitters. See Smoak…

    What a lineup- Ackley, Montero, Smoak, Carp, Casper…this should score some runs.

    We don’t have to worry about the trade for Montero that fell through any more because now we have him. The Yankee fans are pissed that he is gone. Jack Z pulled a good one here. I knew that Pineda would be gone because he was the best pitcher to trade with the highest value…not trading Felix.

  • Anonymous

    Now that I have had an entire 90 minutes or so to contemplate this trade, I really think that the M’s are going to come out of this trade looking really good. I think we lost a really good pitcher in Pineda, however, the possible upside to Montero as a hitter can not be ignored. 
     
    I have been browsing the comment boards on a number of sites and seems like a majority of Mariner fans were not in support for trading Pineda. I would have been there too if we didn’t have Hultzen, Paxton and Walker all waiting in the wings.
     Another point that some are overlooking is just how similar our #1 and #2 pitchers would have been next year in Felix and Big Mike.  When Felix goes out and throws a gem as we have become accustomed to see, and then a slightly worse Felix (with 3 less pitches) takes the mound against the same team, MLB hitters will be able to make an adjustment. I have a feeling that Pineda’s numbers were going to take a hit (pun intended).

    • Jake Fishman

      I hadn’t thought about Pineda’s numbers taking a hit like that because of how similar he is to Felix. Of course just because they’re 1 & 2 in terms of talent doesn’t mean they have to start back to back, sandwiching them around a left would’ve solved that. 

      Then again, no use speculating about a player we no longer have. Although it hurts to lose Campos along with Pineda, I think both teams come out even at the end of the day, maybe edge to us if Jesus ends up an everyday catcher. I’m confident he can, if we can turn Ackley into a second basemen we can help a catcher get better at catching. 

      • http://twitter.com/bgawtheidahofan Brendan Gawlowski

        I wouldn’t say Felix and Pineda are similar at all, other than that they throw right handed and hard. They work very differently, come from different arm angles, use different pitches, throw different speeds, attack different parts of the strike zone, and the result is a very different batted ball profile. They’re both really good, of course, but there’s not much in their arsenals to suggest that they are copies of each other. 

    • Anonymous

      509, as I stated above that Jesus is reported to hit to all fields is a key for this deal and Jack Z knows it. He know about Jesus andhe knows about Pineda. It takes some time to get use to trusting the FO after having such incompetence there…and now we could not have a better team running this team. How fortunate we are.

       This is so much fun. I don’t care any more about Angels or Rangers. Rangers can sign Fielder and Darvish. M’s are going to be a competitive team this year. They may not win division but will be competitive

      • Anonymous

        I agree, The fact that Montero has power to all fields will obviously be crucial in Safeco. I truly believe that Ichiro will bounce back from his worst season ever, and if another person has a good bounce back season i.e. Guti/Smoak/Wells, and the obvious improvements that will come from Ackley and Carp, we will have a very young entertaining team to watch.

  • Anonymous

    The following is a comment from a FanGraphs reader to Dave Cameron’s post on the deal.
    everdiso says:January 14, 2012 at 2:10 amKind of a weird comment, Dave. Montero more than matches up to those guys at the same stage.Age 18M.Stanton (A): 168wRC+ (540pa)
    J.Heyward (A): 145wRC+ (508pa)
    J.Montero (A): 142wRC+ (569pa)
    J.Upton (A): 118wRC+ (501pa)Age 19J.Montero (A+): 185wRC+ (198pa)
    M.Stanton (A+): 176wRC+ (210pa)
    J.Upton (A+): 151wRC+ (150pa)
    J.Heyward (A+): 148wRC+ (214pa)J.Heyward (AA): 192wRC+ (195pa)
    J.Upton (AA): 155wRC+ (306pa)
    J.Montero (AA): 152wRC+ (181pa)
    M.Stanton (AA): 110wRC+ (341pa)Age 20M.Stanton (AA): 206wRC+ (240pa)
    J.Montero (AA): —-
    J.Upton (AA): —-
    J.Hewyard (AA): —–J.Montero (AAA): 132wRC+ (504pa)
    J.Upton (AAA): 120wRC+ (68pa)
    M.Stanton (AAA): —-
    J.Heyward (AAA): —-J.Heyward (MLB): 134wRC+ (623pa)
    M.Stanton (MLB): 118wRC+ (396pa)
    J.Upton (MLB): 103wRC+ (417pa)
    Montero (MLB): —Age 21J.Montero (AAA): 120wRC+ (463pa)
    M.Stanton (AAA): —
    J.Upton (AAA): —
    J.Heyward (AAA): —J.Montero (MLB): 165wRC+ (69pa)
    M.Stanton (MLB): 138wRC+ (601pa)
    J.Upton (MLB): 132wRC+ (588pa)
    J.Heyward (MLB): 98wRC+ (456pa)Other than a questionable decision by the Yanks to keep him down longer (or maybe just a lower motivation for them to rush him), I’m not sure how you can say Montero’s numbers don’t match up.+30  Seems like quite a few readers agreed with him, me included

  • Anonymous

    The following is a comment from a FanGraphs reader to Dave Cameron’s post on the deal.everdiso says:January 14, 2012 at 2:10 amKind of a weird comment, Dave. Montero more than matches up to those guys at the same stage.Age 18M.Stanton (A): 168wRC+ (540pa)
    J.Heyward (A): 145wRC+ (508pa)
    J.Montero (A): 142wRC+ (569pa)
    J.Upton (A): 118wRC+ (501pa)Age 19J.Montero (A+): 185wRC+ (198pa)
    M.Stanton (A+): 176wRC+ (210pa)
    J.Upton (A+): 151wRC+ (150pa)
    J.Heyward (A+): 148wRC+ (214pa)J.Heyward (AA): 192wRC+ (195pa)
    J.Upton (AA): 155wRC+ (306pa)
    J.Montero (AA): 152wRC+ (181pa)
    M.Stanton (AA): 110wRC+ (341pa)Age 20M.Stanton (AA): 206wRC+ (240pa)
    J.Montero (AA): —-
    J.Upton (AA): —-
    J.Hewyard (AA): —–J.Montero (AAA): 132wRC+ (504pa)
    J.Upton (AAA): 120wRC+ (68pa)
    M.Stanton (AAA): —-
    J.Heyward (AAA): —-J.Heyward (MLB): 134wRC+ (623pa)
    M.Stanton (MLB): 118wRC+ (396pa)
    J.Upton (MLB): 103wRC+ (417pa)
    Montero (MLB): —Age 21J.Montero (AAA): 120wRC+ (463pa)
    M.Stanton (AAA): —
    J.Upton (AAA): —
    J.Heyward (AAA): —J.Montero (MLB): 165wRC+ (69pa)
    M.Stanton (MLB): 138wRC+ (601pa)
    J.Upton (MLB): 132wRC+ (588pa)
    J.Heyward (MLB): 98wRC+ (456pa)Other than a questionable decision by the Yanks to keep him down longer (or maybe just a lower motivation for them to rush him), I’m not sure how you can say Montero’s numbers don’t match up.+30  Seems like quite a few readers agreed with him, me included