Discussion: Improving the HR Derby
by Jon ~ July 14th, 2009
I was given a ticket to the AAA Home Run Derby so I haven’t watched the big league event, but by all accounts it was a total sleeper. And that isn’t particularly surprising, because the event usually is outside of a memorable display every few seasons.
I wanted to open up a discussion thread asking what you’d do to improve the derby. Shortening seems like a popular idea after this year, but what else?
For me, the event has always been defined by who hits the longest home runs, not necessarily who can hit the most. I don’t really care if they change the 10 out format, but what I would like to see is a more powerful crop of hitters. Don’t pick the participants based on who is on the All Star team or who has the most home runs to that point. I want the top 6-8 guys in the league when it comes to raw power. I want every guy in the field to be capable of hitting 450-500+ foot moonshots.
From that aspect I can’t complain too much with the 2009 class. Nelson Cruz, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Carlos Pena, Adrian Gonzalez and Ryan Howard are all dripping raw power and near the top of the leader board when it comes to longest home runs this season. And while Brandon Inge was shut out he can hit the ball a long way. He’s hit a 460 bomb and several other moonshots this year in game action. Still, Inge and Joe Mauer aren’t exactly what I think of when I think raw power. Give me two of Adam Dunn, Russell Branyan, Chris Davis, Manny Ramirez, Josh Hamilton, Miguel Cabrera, Ian Stewart, Justin Upton or other big raw power guys instead.
Maybe it would be fun to throw in one or two of the top minor league mashers too. At the AAA derby two local high school kids participated and one of them outdid all the pros in the first round. Sure it was an aluminum bat, but it was still the best part of the derby. If a couple of high profile minor leaguers (Mike Stanton, Jason Heyward types) were allowed to take on the big names of today it would make for some big time dramatics.
Those are a couple of my suggestions. What do you think? What else should be changed to make it more enjoyable?
21 Responses to Discussion: Improving the HR Derby
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wrob4343
July 14th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I like the home run hitter suggestion, but I think this competition has the same problem as the dunk contest which is A) its getting harder to keep the big names in and B) there is no incentive. Pretty soon they’ll all be asking out of it after the imaginary second half slumps and what not. So I would suggest giving throwing money at the problem, by going after guys sense of charity and maybe making the winner of the home run derby’s league the home team for the real All-Star Game… one of those is a joke. Which one is it?
Dustin Shires
July 14th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I love the idea of bringing up a top minor league power name, and having him swing with the big boys. I also like the idea of longest home run. The “most home runs” format is a joke. Josh Hamilton hits 28 in the first round last year and that total gets snubbed for the final round? That’s a horrible way to go about it.
The Brandon Inge’s and Joe Mauer’s of the world aren’t Home Run Derby material. Fine hitters, moreso Mauer than Inge, but neither have that light-tower power that it’s fun to see.
SABR Matt
July 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am
You want to fix the HR derby…add a sense of jeopardy and a baseball game like mentality. The ORIGINAL Home run hitting contest back in the 50s paired two of the best power hitters in a baseball game format where they had three outs at a time (like an inning) to hit home runs and they kept score like it was a big league game. At the end of a 6 inning contest, the winner would get a prize (these days that could be something like $10,000). Now the HR Derby format for the ASG could be a tournament structure. Pair two guys off from the AL…winner gets $5,000 and a seat in the next round…do the same for the NL guys. Second round, the prize goes up to $10,000. Then the final round is AL vs. NL, the winner gets $50,000 or a new mercedes M-class or something like that, some lucky fan who is paired with the winning player gets the same prize, and the longest HR of the entire derby gets another prize.
I also agree that we need to encourage long-time power hitters to play, not just this season’s HR leaders. No one in their right mind thinks of Brandon Inge as a power hitter. Qualification to get into the derby should not be limited to the ASG rosters and should not be based on half a season worth of stats…the invites should go to players with the most HRs in the last 1.5 seasons (last year’s HR champs should count for something).
Dustin Shires
July 14th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I like SABR Matt’s tournament structure idea, along with incentives as you win rounds. That’s a good idea.
SABR Matt
July 14th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Doesn’t the 3-point shooting contest in the NBA all-star game have the concept of the “money ball”? If you want to add some fun to the HR derby, you could have one money ball per half inning that counts for 2 runs instead of one…or that wins a cash prize for someone randomly drawn from the crowd if the player homers on it or something like that.
Mariner Melee
July 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Get rid of the announcers. I don’t mind the formula so far (been watching the derby since 2003), but I am sick and tired of listening to the dull monotone Joe Morgan and Chris Berman screaming BACK, BACK, BACK, BACK, GONE!
ESPN has horrible broadcasters, how about letting the broadcasters of the home park commentate the derby, or even cycle in some Hall of Fame Broadcasters. I just can’t listen to the guys they have announcing this thing anymore. It’s old it’s stale and it needs to change.
Jon Shields
July 14th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I was going to suggest making the money ball a golf ball, but that could be dangerous for unsuspecting pedestrians a mile away!
SABR Matt
July 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
LOL on the golf ball comment.
I agree on hating Rick Berman’s call of the Derby. I’m not what announcer could spice it up though…the repetitive act of trying to hit home runs is a little hard to make thrilling without adding a game context. In other words, I really think we need to switch from 10-out style to half-inning style and keep score like it’s a game. I also think it would be cool if the pitching difficulty steadily increased either from round to round or from inning to inning within each round. Start with BP speed and gradually rev it up so they have to hit some guy throwing 95.
Now that would be interesting.
moethedog
July 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Cancel it. That would improve it better than anything else.
Sheeeesh…if we need a staged batting practice to enjoy the Mid-Summer Classic…then we’re not MLB fans anyway.
Jon Shields
July 14th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Maybe they should get rid of the bats and have a home run derby comprised of the best arms in the league. My early favorite: Adam Jones!
Speaking of which, how would the MLB do with an NFL/NBA style skills competition?
SABR Matt
July 14th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
HR Derby is one skill…I’d like to see baserunning (time from home to first, including the need to swing a bat and best throwing catchers vs. best baserunners trying to steal second), throwing arm (throwing from the outfield and trying to hit barrel targets of varying size and position for points…smaller targets are worth more as well as further targets, thus rewarding arm strength AND accuracy), and precision hitting (facing a BP pitcher, can you aim the ball at targets in the field for points).
Brandon
July 14th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
1: Let the participants use aluminum bats
2: Have a time limit instead of an out limit. Watching 3-4 pitches go by before every swing is what got boring for me.
I also love the idea of bringing up a beast from the minor leagues to take a hack at beating the big dogs.
@ Jon, What kind of stuff would be in the skills competition?
Brandon
July 14th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I like SABR Matt’s idea of precision games, both throwing and batting. That would be a lot more fun to watch than “BACK BACK BACK GONE!!” or “BACK GONE! wow, that thing was outta here in a second!”
Jon Shields
July 14th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Having a time limit isn’t possible without using a pitching machine that’s going to put the ball in the same place every time, and I’m pretty sure the hitters prefer a real live arm to a machine for timing purposes.
As far as a skills competition.. the type of stuff SABR Matt mentioned. I want to find out who’s the fastest runner, strongest and most accurate arm, most powerful hitter and who has the best bat control.. stuff like that.
I’m not saying I want a skills competition– just throwing the idea out there. I’m not sure it could be pulled off without being a bore-fest or too cheezy.
Brandon
July 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Why can’t there be a time limit while using real pitchers? The guys all pick their own BP guy anyways, so I don’t see the problem with that.
Jon Shields
July 14th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
The time limit doesn’t work on several levels for me.
For one, it just wouldn’t be fair. Whether they pick their own guys or not, if a pitcher goes in a funk for a 5-6 pitches that guy is going to lose. No one wants a home run contest determined by how good the BP pitcher was. It’s about the hitters.
Second, if hitters aren’t allowed to be as selective they’re not going to put on as great of a show. You allow them to wait for a perfect pitch and they’re going to give you a 470 foot homer. You don’t and you’re going to see a bunch of 370 homers, and that’s hardly an event worth watching (and I should know, because that’s what the AAA derby amounted to).
Third, the guys need to take pitches to catch their breath. Swinging at max effort takes a lot out of you. If you’re going to force them to be on a time limit they’re going to get worn out quicker, and the level of performance is going to drop. Maybe it would be less frustrating if they just stepped out for a few seconds instead of taking pitches? It would cut the wasted anticipation, at very least.
SABR Matt
July 14th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
There’s a simpler way Jon…Again, I’m going to repeat my insistence that the correct format for the derby is an inning-style format. You won’t get worn out if you only have to go for three outs at a time. Have any of you guys seen the original “Home Run Derby”? That is how it was done. I saw one between Mickey Mantle and Harmon Killebrew. Not only was it a lot more exciting than watching today’s sluggers set there and take 6 pitches…homer four times and make 10 outs all of which takes like 15 minutes…it was easier on the sluggers and the format allowed for the announcers to be talking to one of the competitors while the other was hitting, which made for some amusing trash talk. Plus…it brings back the sense of jeopardy…it’s the bottom of the 6th and final inning…Killebrew needs at least 3 home runs to stay alive, 4 to win…can he do it?? There’s one!! OOOHHH that was just short of the wall…two outs to go. And if this one stays fair…YES…home run…one more to tie! Weak grounder for an out…it all comes down to this! And that’s all she wrote, it’s out to center but well short of the fence!
Think about it guys.
wrob4343
July 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Not only are the back, back, back, back, gone comments lame, but the nicknames are absolutely atrocious… I don’t mind the rest of the crew (OK maybe Steve Phillips can go) but Chris Berman is the worst.
Jon Shields
July 15th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Dustin Shires
July 15th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I gotta point out that a “precision hitting” thing would be so damn hard to accomplish. In the NBA and NFL, the Point Guard and Quarterback can turn their bodies and throw the ball wherever the target is. Hitting is more based upon where the pitch is thrown. The guy could have a target in the opposite field, but have the pitcher bust him inside with stuff? That’s not gonna work, I don’t think.
I’d like to see a fielding challenge, no matter how difficult that may be to orchestrate. I’m sick of Baseball Tonight saying “Oh, he’s an outstanding fielder!” when every defensive metric disagrees with their statements.
Jon Shields
July 15th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Yeah, the problem with a precision hitting is that there are only a handful of guys in each generation that could do it. Right now it would be Ichiro and… who else? 15 years ago you could have guys like Tony Gwynn and Wade Boggs in it perhaps. But there just isn’t enough guys in the big leagues that could make it into a competition.