M’s Talking Extension with Wilson
by Jon ~ November 6th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Jack Wilson, the Pirates’ shortstop most of this decade, is discussing a multiyear extension with Seattle that would keep him from becoming a free agent.
The Mariners are believed to have offered a two-year contract worth more than the two-year offer the Pirates made Wilson — $8 million — shortly before trading him July 29.
No big surprise here. Wilson was brought to Seattle to be the shortstop for the next couple of years, not to be dumped after a rough debut.
14 Responses to M’s Talking Extension with Wilson
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eastcoastmariner
November 6th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Agreed. I’m not nearly as down on him as I hear many M’s fans are. The guy can pick it and hes the best option out there. Especially with Hardy now off the market
mrakbaseball
November 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Jack Wilson will indeed be Seattle’s starting shortstop in 2010.
MarinerMan6
November 6th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Yet another reason the M’s need to invest in some mashing DH/1B because we are resigning ourselves to a designated fielder at SS. That being said it is the most important position on the diamond so it does have value but Jack needs a late inning pinch hitter every game (Mike Carp maybe??)
moethedog
November 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
This is no surprise. He’s a 2 WAR guy because he’s a 20/UZR150 guy. I think I posted a week ago that I thought they’ld get him for a little less with a bunch of incentive….All the same, he’s a valuable guy. I’m glad he’s a Mariner.
section331
November 7th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
“Wilson was brought to Seattle to be the shortstop for the next couple of years, not to be dumped after a rough debut.”
YES. Thank you for saying it, too. Would like to keep, please…
StandinPat
November 7th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
While I agree that A) Wilson isn’t much with the bat, and B) M’s desperately need to max their offense out of 1B and DH, I also think its important to remember that the M’s got a wOBA of .262 on the year out of the SS position. It wouldn’t be crazy at all for a full season of Wilson to actually boost the offense at SS as well.
Jon Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
People have already forgotten how terrible that position has been since.. oh.. 2001.
MarinerMan6
November 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
The problem is that you cannot win a game 0 to -1. I would say that the M’s can count on 3 position players being around average with the bat or better: Ichiro, Gutierrez, Lopez. Beyond that we are not just talking about bad offensive players, try horrendous. I think Dave at USSM had a good post a while back where he said the game is about 50% offense/30% pitching/20% defense. Well the M’s are running about 99th percentile in defense but running 15th in pitching and 5th in hitting will not work. By going with Jack Wilson he is all field no bat. He could never hit in the NL and now he is an a tough RH park in the AL, getting to a .300 wOBA for him may take a miracle. The M’s have limited space to upgrade around the diamond so the M’s definitely need to get the Harden/Sheets/Bedard mold in the rotation and at least 2 of Branyan, Nick Johnson, or Delgado to have any shot at thinking 85+ wins next year.
It’s too bad Adrian hates Safeco because as bad as he was offensively last year he is much better than that and we all know what he can do with the glove.
StandinPat
November 8th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
The M’s averaged 3.95 runs per game last year with an AWFUL offense, and were only shut out in 10 games, only 4 more than the Angels who had the best offense in the division, so this 0 to -1 crap is meaningless. The M’s won 85 games last year behind pitching and run prevention, so i don’t see how you can suddenly argue that its a formula the doesn’t work. Do the M’s need more offense if they wanna take that next step? Oh Hellz Yes! But, to add it at the expense of defense doesn’t actually move you forward.
Besides, the M’s got abysmal offense out of LF, SS, 3B and C, and not nearly enough out of DH. Without making ANY moves the 2010 M’s will be better at at least 3 of those spots and no worse at the others.
Yes the M’s need to add more Offense, but lets not make it sound like they need an all-star caliber bat at every position to be competitive. Marginal improvements are still improvements and 2010 Wilson > 09 cumulative SS production. It IS a step in the right direction albeit a small one, and the first of many we need.
MarinerMan6
November 9th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Pat you are valuing defense too much. Proportionally hitting and starting pitching is much more important than defense. Given their run differential, record in 1-run games (which says more about luck than skill), 85 wins from this year pretty much maxed them out. With their all defensive squad this year I think they have reached their potential at 85 wins–which will get them 3rd place again. Without a ceiling of 95 wins they can’t make the playoffs. The only way to get there with this group is to sign solid hitters at 1B and DH, and hopefully pick up a high risk/reward starting pitcher. I’m all about optimism but the M’s roster as currently constructed lacks the horses to be competitive in the AL West. The good news is Zdurenciek knows this and he will make moves this fall accordingly–hopefully with 1 year incentive laden deals for these types of guys.
Jon
November 9th, 2009 at 9:48 am
You two aren’t really disagreeing. You both want offense. Adding offense at 1B/DH– which is the easiest place to add it this offseason– isn’t going to effect the defense, so what’s the problem? It’s not like anyone is suggesting bringing in Miguel Tejada at SS.
BoiseM
November 9th, 2009 at 10:26 am
” It’s not like anyone is suggesting bringing in Miguel Tejada at SS.”
Correct.
We have already made a sinificant upgrade at SS, even if Wilson didn’t make a good debut here. Looking at Yuni and Jack’s career batting they look pretty darn similar…Yuni has a slight edge in power, but their OPS’s are nearly identical. When you add the immense gain in defense and all the other things Wilson brings to the table, things that Yuni could never even think of, I think we’ve upgraded nicely there.
What are the offensive upgrades available at SS right now that wouldn’t be an embarrassment in the field? Of the FA’s Scutaro? Juan Uribe? At 3B maybe. I don’t know of a lot of .300/.350/.400 SS’s being dangled out there. I don’t know that Hardy was that guy either.
In GMZ’s wheelings and dealings this off season I hope he can stock the upper levels of the MiL cllubs with a couple of quality middle infield prospects. Waiting for Truinel, who may not even be a SS in a couple of years, without much else there seems risky.
MarinerMan6
November 9th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Yeah, SS in MLB right now generally suck. 1B, DH, starting pitching is where the offseason focus I think will be realistically. My only worry about the 1B/DH market is that it may actually be competitive. It seems like every team in the M’s payroll area would be willing to roll the dice on a one-year deal for Brayan, Nick Johnson, Delgado, Harden, and Sheets. Thus I worry about about having to overpay some for services they may not provide due to injury. However, at the end of the day it may be worth it to overpay a bit because 85 wins does nothing. For as much as people love the A’s and moneyball, I haven’t seen them getting to the playoffs recently. Eventually you need some siginificantly above average players in the 2 to 3 WAR range in order to be a playoff team, otherwise we have to continue to watch the Angels in the playoffs.
StandinPat
November 9th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
MM,
How exactly am I overvaluing defense? I simply stated that the M’s won 85 games behind pitching and run prevention, and its important to recognize that. I also stated that it does you no good to upgrade a position offensively if you subsequently downgrade the defense at that position by an equal or greater measure.
Also, if you actually read what I wrote, I clearly stated that the M’s need to add more offense, and 1B/DH are the two positions they will have to maximize given their penchant for D at other spots.
Furthermore I think you are undervaluing the almost automatic upgrades the M’s will get at 5 out of 9 spots in their lineup just by filtering out some of the crap they had last year, younger players improving, or finding upgrades in the market even if they aren’t huge names.
C .280wOBA
SS .262wOBA
3B .290wOBA
LF .268wOBA
DH .327wOBA
I’d bet good money that the M’s seems solid improvement over each one of those numbers in 2010. And keep in mind that a wOBA of .282 from Wilson, which is still bad, would constitute a 10 run improvement at SS.