42 Responses to Seattle-Detroit-Tampa Bay

1. 
   issymicen
   November 20th, 2009 at 4:49 am

   Jon I am going to give this a shot. Some may seem that this is a pipe dream… It is not easy …

   Mariners get:
   Crawford
   Jackson
   Scott Sizemore

   Detriot Gets:
   Lopez
   Olson
   AAA/AA from SEA
   PTBL from SEA
   Reid Brignac
   AAA/AA pitching prospect from TB

   Tampa Bay gets:
   Morrow
   Saunders
   Armando Galarraga
   Ryan Perry
   PTBL

   I do feel like I am screwing a team over here.

   M’s Lineup:
   Ichiro-RF
   Franklin Gutierrez-CF
   Crawford-LF
   Delgado/FA-DH
   Branyan/Carp-1B
   Hall/Hannahan-3b
   Sizemore-2B
   Johnson/Moore-C
   Jack Wilson SS

   M’s rotation:
   Felix
   Jackson
   HARDEN/Bedard/Sheets/Wolf
   RRS
   Snell

   Prefer Harden over any of those FA. The only thing I don’t like about the line up is possible 3 lefts in a row in your power spot… I wish you could put a right-handed or Switch hitter there.

   

   Jon Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:59 am

   Why would TB want Morrow and Gallaraga? Their mid-back of rotation depth is decent.

   The Mariners are getting the most and giving up the least in this scenario, even if your unnamed “AAA/AA from Seattle” is Triunfel.

   

   issymicen Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

   Jon,

   Like I said I felt like i was screwing someone over in the deal (lop-side)…

   is there anyway the M’s can keep Truinfel and acquire Sizemore? Do you think the DET is willing to part with him even with his injury? I’ve been reading that DET Doesn’t have remove salary if they dont want to is that correct? Or do they feel pressured with the economy to offload salary?

   

   Jon Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

   Oh, I misread that. I saw “I DON’T feel like I am screwing a team over…”

   I don’t really have any answers for those questions. I’m not sure what it would take to get Sizemore (who is currently penciled in as their 2010 starting 2B) nor do I know how he’s recovering from the injury. As far as Tigers payroll, the rumors that they want to cut back a bit are just rumors; I don’t know how serious they are about it. But just because they may prefer to move some big contract, it doesn’t mean they’re looking to make “salary dump” type of moves. If they’re moving guys like Granderson or Cabrera, they are looking for a great return.

2. 
   eastcoastmariner
   November 20th, 2009 at 6:06 am

   Another name to keep in mind is Gerald Laird. The Rays need catching help and the Tigers are rumored to be shopping Laird

3. 
   mw3
   November 20th, 2009 at 6:46 am

   Tampa gets
   Granderson
   Lowe
   Kelly/White

   Detroit gets
   Lopez
   Morrow
   Saunders
   Sonnanstine
   Kelly/White

   Seattle gets
   Jackson
   Crawford
   Aybar

4. 
   moethedog
   November 20th, 2009 at 7:00 am

   How is Sizemore’s rehab going? Broke his fibula, I think, ini October.

   I like Jackson. He gobbles up innings. I like Morrow, too…but to add a quality LF like Crawford or Grandy AND a durable number 2….Let Morrow, Saunders (who I have no confidence in) and Lopez go.

   I like Morrow though. He has one really great season coming up at some point.

   Keith

5. 
   number1felixfan
   November 20th, 2009 at 8:16 am

   Is Ichiro dead set on leading off? Cause if you could get Crawford and sign Hudson, Ichiro could easy drive in 100 runs this year hitting 3rd. I am in love with the idea of bringing in Crawford developing Ackley into a 2nd baseman and useing Hudson as a stop gap.

6. 
   The Kid
   November 20th, 2009 at 9:45 am

   I just read a blog who linked an article that stated not to look too much into the rumors for a Jackson/Morrow trade. Although everything at this point is a dance, the talk surrounding the M’s is all very intriguing. Thank God the Mariners are finally their name brought up. Anywho, as far as my take on what we should do:

   I like Morrow, and believe in home-grown talent(i.e.: Phillies), but if he is the best trade bait, especially if something can be worked out for Jackson, Cabrera, or Crawford, I would deal him in a heartbeat. Great point by number1felixfan, if we can bring in Crawford, Ichiro would be an easy lock for 100 RBI. I feel Miguel Cabrera has the most raw talent of player in the majors, and would obviously be a huge contract but long term upgrade over any other option.

   Re-sign the King long term, sign Harden with an incentive laden deal, and go hard after Lackey. The Yankees signed two studs and win a championship. We have the Cy Young runner up, and bringing in a horse in Lackey and a big risk big reward guy in Harden could shape up the rotation beautifully. RRS and Snell will fill the back end nicely if Morrow and guys like Kelly/White are dealt for some much needed offense.

   I believe we have around $40 million to spend wisely, and I believe Big Z will do us right. What I have proposed may look something like this as it stands: Lackey-$10-12, Harden-$6-8, Crawford-$10. Not leaving much for the 3B or 1B, which is why it would be difficult to swing, but like I said, in Big Z I trust.

   

   vertigoman Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 11:07 am

   I believe 40 mil is about right. That takes into account players signed and projected raises in regards to the projected budget.
   but we’ve already spent 7 million of that on Wilson and Griffey.
   maybe Lincoln isn’t lying and won’t restrain GMZ financially if possible.

7. 
   harrison
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:18 am

   OKAY… I love playing GM

   Here ya go …

   Teams giving up players

   Mariners:
   Morrow
   Lopez
   Saunders
   Aardsma
   Hensley

   Tigers
   Cabera
   Jackson
   Granderson
   Sizemore

   Rays:
   Burrell
   Neimann
   Pena
   Ayabar
   Barnese

   Players Recieved

   Mariners:
   Pena
   Jackson
   Sizemore
   Ayabar

   Tigers:
   Morrow
   Lopez
   Saunders
   Hensley
   Burrell
   Neimann
   Barnese

   Rays:
   Cabera
   Granderson
   Aardsma

   

   number1felixfan Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:50 am

   [moved by mod] your trade looks good personal wise but if the Rays and Tigers want to cut payroll I dont think the TIgers would take Burrell who is owed a ton of money and Cabrera although worth every penny of it is also getting paid like 15 million a year. Also remember that Tampa Bay has Desmond Jennings waiting for a position to open up and Crawford will be a free agent after this year and the Rays don’t think they can sign him long term.

   

   Jon Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

   Good point on Jennings. They definitely don’t NEED to bring in a guy like Grandy. They’d probably be better off just going for the best possible haul.

   

   Jon Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:56 am

   I don’t think the Tigers would want Burrell either, but not because of money. You cleared a lot of space for them by moving over $25M in Cabrera, Granderson and Jackson, but keep in mind they also have Magglio and Guillen looking for at bats at DH.

   I’m also not sure the Rays would want to take on Cabrera’s contract. You cleared space for them in 2009, but down the road it could be difficult to manage for a team like them.

   

   harrison Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

   LOL! I was only looking at talent … I didn’t think about the Mechanics and as for the outfield position I expect Crawford to traded this off-season. Thats just my own personal theory.

   

   harrison Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

   I don’t actually think anything like that would happen. It was all just a matter of throwing out a possible trade. Because well… work was slow, it was fun and I miss my xbox LOL!

8. 
   vertigoman
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:24 am

   Given our LF production this last season Crawford would be the biggest positional upgrade we could make. He fits the GMZ mold and park perfectly. We’d field four of the fielding bible award recipients and the entire FB OF! His upside is probably a park adjusted version of Mat Holliday. He’s a FA after this season so it also fits the Ackley timeline as well. If he’s a type A FA and he doesn’t cost a ton of talent then we could let him walk if need be and get a couple of picks.
   Granderson is cheaper than Crawford and is probably close to his caliber in LF. He has more power but hits LHP like a one eyed pirate with gout.

   I guess I’m in the minority here but I like Morrow more than Jackson. Well, actually I think they’re the same guy but Morrow has less wear and is under team control for cheap. But I’d take Jackson if it meant getting Crawford.

   Seattle gets:
   Crawford
   Jackson
   -10 mil in payroll

   TB gets:
   Granderson
   Lowe
   +4 mil in payroll

   Det gets:
   Morrow
   Lopez
   Saunders
   +5 mil in payroll

   I’d do this. The Rays might do this. Would Det. do this? I know they need to cut some payroll and this does that. They get the same player as Jackson only cheaper. THey fill 2B and get a cheap replacement in the OF. I think they only do this if they think Saunders can play center.

   Someone else that may be interesting is Navarro. Bill James thinks he’s a bad year rebound sure thing. I’d have to imagine the Rays would gladly give him away at around 3 mil for 2010

   Resign Bedard (incentive laden prove me contract)
   Sign O. Hudson and N.Johnson
   When the AL West.

   

   mw3 Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 11:22 am

   Detroit really looks like they are not getting equal value though that is a huge salary dump. The salaries for the Rays are almost a wash which is why I think that they include more salary. The Mariners are also giving up two mediocre pitchers (with considerable upside though) an average 2B and an unproven prospect for two All-Stars. The M’s will have to give up more to get Crawford.

   

   vertigoman Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

   You might be right about Det. It really depends on how these players are valued. As M’s fans our own perception of Morrow, Lopez, Saunders and Lowe may well be tepid. But another org may view them as:
   Morrow=a top 10 pick with Ace potential and ML experience
   Lopez= a young cheap 2nd basemen with emerging power and average defense. 20-30 HR and 100rbi potential
   Lowe= a closer in the making
   Saunders= the number 2 prospect in the M’s org a year ago

   Would any of those descriptions be too far off?
   POV I guess

   

   Jon Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

   “I guess I’m in the minority here but I like Morrow more than Jackson.”

   I’m with you. If Morrow is going towards other pieces and Jackson is his replacement, cool. But I would be unwilling to trade Morrow with the primary return being Jackson. I really don’t like Jackson and would rather take my chances with Morrow, hoping he can improve his control.

9. 
   number1felixfan
   November 20th, 2009 at 10:33 am

   [moved]
   
   Mod: let’s try and use the ‘reply’ buttons, guys. Especially in threads like this where there are a lot of different ideas flying around.

   

   heychuck Reply:
   November 20th, 2009 at 11:15 am

   I think the amount of money that Seattle has to ‘burn’ is being overestimated here.

   Don’t forget they will have to pay players arbitration this year, especially Felix. They only have maybe 20mil to ‘burn’.

   I don’t see how they can take on a few big contracts in a trade AND sign FA’s.

10. 
    skoorbo
    November 20th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    WARNING: Consume with salt.

    SEA: Pena, Granderson, Willis, Brignac
    TB: Morrow, Kelly, Laird
    DET: Moore

    Looking at service time and contract details (via cot’s) this would make a lot of sense if Detroit is really serious about cutting cost.

    

    skoorbo Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Or you could swap Willis for Lopez, though to be honest I don’t think Detroit would want him.

    

    Mariners121212 Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Why would TB and DET possibly want to do this?? Especially TB. Lets be reasonable here guys.

    

    skoorbo Reply:
    November 21st, 2009 at 12:40 am

    TB only has one year of control over Pena at 10$, Brignac Is expendable, Laird is a way better value than Navarro.

    DET would be clearing 20$ and receiving a pretty good prospect.

11. 
    moethedog
    November 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    I love Granderson and hope the M’s steal him away…but if Detroit is cutting cost, why get rid of Granderson. He’s not costing them anything anyway.

    That part doeesn’t make sense…

    Keith

12. 
    ernier
    November 20th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    I keep thinking that the Tigers might be able to free up salary by getting rid of just 1 or 2 guys, if one of the guys is Cabrera. I wonder if they’ve soured on Cabrera because of the incident at the end of the year when he got drunk and into a dispute with his wife before that critical game at the end of the season. Maybe they’d be happy to find someone to take his salary and they get a modest return of young players and they could then use some of that money on a free agent. I’d love to have Cabrera playing first for the M’s with Branyan as the everyday DH.

    

    issymicen Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Cabrera hmmm… 26 years old 2010: 20mil 2011: 21mil 2012-13: 22mil 2014-15 22mil… I know he is a good player. Are the M’s willing to take on that much of salary. I am still getting use to the value of player, so taking that inconsideration does that mean at that high of a price tag and the mean years would that mean more players in return for Miggy? I guess what I am trying to say is that is alot of money going to a player not named Felix.

13. 
    MarinerMan6
    November 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    I don’t think the M’s need a LF with Saunders developing for league minimum now and Ackley maybe ready in 2011. Plus Edwin Jackson for Brandon Morrow I would not do straight up. Morrow’s ceiling is higher all while paying him pennies. When you factor in the cost associated with each I prefer Morrow.

    Crawford would be interesting but he is a FA after next year so unless you are signing him to an extension he could be a rental player and cost you some good young prospects in the process.

14. 
    Dustin Shires
    November 20th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    If you want to trade for Carl Crawford, feel free, but remember, we’d only have him under contract for 2010. And if you think he’s going to be a cheap extension, that’s another dream to tackle.

    I’d rather not unload Saunders for one year of Carl Crawford.

    

    Jon Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I’d be cool with Crawford for one year under the right circumstances. First of all, he’s a legitimate star in this league, and would help Seattle immensely on both sides of the ball as they look to win in 2010. If Seattle sputters out of the gate and is out of it by midseason, he makes a great trade chip. And he’s also a Type A who wouldn’t accept arbitration, so at very least you get a parting gift.

    All depends on the deal, of course. Wouldn’t do a 5-for-1 or something like that, but the three way deal between these teams would allow Detroit to use Granderson or whoever to do some of the heavy lifting.

    

    vertigoman Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Just read on Bakers Blog that they plan on playing Ackley at 2B. The way I read it, that means now and then they’ll evaluate during ST.
    THat’s news.
    I was very dismissive elsewhere of people that penciled him as our 2b glove of the future. At the time it was based solely on his college coaches comments.
    Evidently, GMZ likes the idea of kicking tires on this one.
    Does this make a move for a LFer more probable? Seems like it.
    Ackley’s bat at 2b can be summed up in one word, drool.

15. 
    Letsplaytwo
    November 20th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    This is a nice site. I am a Tigers fan and I will bring that perspective to the trade possibilities. Based on how Mr. Dombrowski usually trades he won’t go after:

    – Lopez, because Sizemore is rated in the top 5 prospects at the position by most scouts and even if his ankle slows him down in the Spring Santiago could play 2B for a while. Plus that .303 OBP for Lopez is scary

    – Saunders, because he just may be a 4-A player

    – anyone who is expensive or will be a free agent before 2012. Detroit will shed about $50 million after the 2010 season in bloated contracts. I think Mr. D may be targeting his off season moves to acquire players who will really contribute then.

    A deal that I think could work would be Jackson for Morrow and Gillies, and maybe one of the relief prospects. this would put a player in the pipeline in case the Tigers do trade Granderson and Casper Wells is not the answer in CF.

    I can’t figure a good three way with Tampa that produces fair return for all three teams.

    

    Jon Reply:
    November 20th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    Thanks for visiting. I agree that your Tigers would be better off sticking with Sizemore, but that doesn’t mean I still don’t want him!

    I disagree with your Saunders comment, because you could say that about any prospect. Anyone could turn out to be a 4A player. Saunders struggling in 100 ABs doesn’t prove anything.

    I would also want no part of your Morrow/Gillies/reliever for Jackson deal. Terrible deal for the M’s. Jackson just isn’t good enough to command that much in trade (from a smart team).

    

    Letsplaytwo Reply:
    November 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    This is why unless the three way deal develops that there is not a good match between DET and SEA. The Tigers, rightly or wrongly, won’t trade Jackson even up for Morrow. Until the 2nd half last year there were serious discussions out here as to who was the Tiger’s ace, Verlander or Jackson(?) Whatever the reason for his fade Jackson was a legit All Star in 2009. Morrow has promise, he just doesn’t have a resume yet. If you don’t think you are a contender in 2010 Seattle should not consider trading for Jackson. And since the Tigers can have Jackson for two more years just by going to arbitration they won’t be motivated unless one of their other holes (lead off, SS, 3B after one more year of Inge) can be addressed as a result.

16. 
    M-Pops
    November 21st, 2009 at 11:19 am

    SEA = Crawford, Jackson
    DET = Morrow, Saunders, Brignac
    TB = Granderson, Alex Avila, Lowe, Aumont

    Seattle may have to throw in another B prospect or two to even things out, but this looks pretty fair. Big gamble for the M’s.

    Letsplaytwo, what do Tiger fans think of Avila? His bat seems solid, how’s his D?

    

    Jon Reply:
    November 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Avila would be helpful, but he’s not going anywhere. He’s the son of Detroit’s assistant GM.

    Also, why does everyone seem so opposed to dealing Aardsma?

    

    Letsplaytwo Reply:
    November 21st, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Avila is thought by scouts to be an above average offensive prospect with average defensive upside. I can’t see the Tigers giving up the cost controlled young Avila in this type of deal.

    Here is a version of the deal I would do:

    SEA = Crawford / Jackson

    DET = Morrow / Jennings / Brignac

    TB = Granderson / G. Laird / Saunders / Aumont

    The Tigers have not had a true lead off man since Tony Phillips. Jennings would potentially provide that. I consider Brignac a “C” prospect but he might fill a need in DET. TB does not need offense from the catcher spot and Laird is an elite defensive catcher coming off his career worst offensive year. If TB is thinking contention next year Laird would be a safer bet with a young pitching staff. TB would have to think that Saunders is the real thing to pull the trigger on this version.

17. 
    StandinPat
    November 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Jackson is not demonstrably better than Morrow, and while Crawford is a star, he’s only got one more year on his contract. You are basically Trading Lowe and Morrow to make Morrow a safer bet for 2010, but lowering his future upside while increasing his cost after that, and trading Aumont and Saunders to try and get what would basically be one season of Saunders at his peak.

    Doesn’t really maximize your value. Morrow and Lowe would prob net you a better, less costly pitcher from a lot of other teams, and i really think Morrow > Jackson in 2011 and beyond….and it may not even be close.

    Saunders + for Granderson may make some sense, just because you’re basically turning the clock forward on Saunders and have him for several years at the trade off of the increased cost.

    The M’s are in a pickle, they have some young talent that’s really close to contributing, but if they wanna compete this year, they prob can’t rely on said players, but those guys are also their best trade chips.

18. 
    Mike Rogers
    November 21st, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    As a Tigers fan, Jon, I do want to dispell the “reports” that the Tigers need to slash payroll. Illitch hasn’t said a word about it and Dombrowski continues to vehemently deny it. When the payroll was maxed last year Dombrowski was forthright and candid that they couldn’t add salary much at all and he hasn’t really mislead the media in the past, so I believe that the Tigers aren’t slashing payroll. Just a bit annoying to see the national media refuses to pick up what the Detroit beat writers have been saying for weeks.

    

    Jon Reply:
    November 21st, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    I hear ya.

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