Seattle-Detroit-Tampa Bay

by ~ November 20th, 2009 at 2:11 am

Last offseason the Seattle Mariners were said to be fairly close to a three way trade involving the Detroit Tigers and Tampa Bay Rays.  When at first you don’t succeed, try again.  Rumor has it that the three may be at it again (Bob Nightengale tweet, Prospect Insider post plus comments), with Brandon Morrow and Edwin Jackson two of the names involved.

It’s safe to say that Detroit and Seattle are talking, but odds are that Tampa Bay is just one of many teams Seattle and Detroit are talking with.

I thought this could be a fun opportunity to give you all the floor for some armchair GMing and rosterbation madness.  I’m not going to say much more, but consider a few possibilities:

Detroit and Tampa Bay are both said to be looking to save some money.  You’ve got Jackson presumably heading to Seattle and Morrow presumably heading to Detroit.  Tampa Bay could move Carl Crawford to Seattle, replacing him with a guy that isn’t as good but is half the price and under contract for a while in Curtis Granderson.  Both Seattle and Tampa Bay have young outfielders Detroit would be interested in to help replace Granderson in Michael Saunders and Fernando Perez, (late edit to add:) although they do have Casper Wells.  Both the Rays and Tigers need relief pitching, and Seattle has late inning relievers to burn.  The Tigers look like they could use a shortstop, so maybe they’d want Reid Brignac.  Jose Lopez could appeal to Detroit as Scott Sizemore (rookie) and Brandon Inge (bad knees, inconsistent performance) insurance.  I love Sizemore as a fit for Seattle.  Willy Aybar is a guy that could fit in either Detroit or Seattle.

There are unlimited possibilities even beyond the players listed above.  You could even pull the outfielders out of the deal and put in Carlos Pena and Miguel Cabrera if you want to go another direction.  And no, offering Carlos Silva for Magglio Ordonez is probably not such a good idea for Seattle.

Have fun with it.  Play all three GMs, and remember that this needs to be as close to a win-win-win as possible.  I’ll moderate and offer some suggestions.

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  • issymicen

    Jon I am going to give this a shot. Some may seem that this is a pipe dream… It is not easy …

    Mariners get:
    Crawford
    Jackson
    Scott Sizemore

    Detriot Gets:
    Lopez
    Olson
    AAA/AA from SEA
    PTBL from SEA
    Reid Brignac
    AAA/AA pitching prospect from TB

    Tampa Bay gets:
    Morrow
    Saunders
    Armando Galarraga
    Ryan Perry
    PTBL

    I do feel like I am screwing a team over here.

    M’s Lineup:
    Ichiro-RF
    Franklin Gutierrez-CF
    Crawford-LF
    Delgado/FA-DH
    Branyan/Carp-1B
    Hall/Hannahan-3b
    Sizemore-2B
    Johnson/Moore-C
    Jack Wilson SS

    M’s rotation:
    Felix
    Jackson
    HARDEN/Bedard/Sheets/Wolf
    RRS
    Snell

    Prefer Harden over any of those FA. The only thing I don’t like about the line up is possible 3 lefts in a row in your power spot… I wish you could put a right-handed or Switch hitter there.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      Why would TB want Morrow and Gallaraga? Their mid-back of rotation depth is decent.

      The Mariners are getting the most and giving up the least in this scenario, even if your unnamed “AAA/AA from Seattle” is Triunfel.

      • issymicen

        Jon,

        Like I said I felt like i was screwing someone over in the deal (lop-side)…

        is there anyway the M’s can keep Truinfel and acquire Sizemore? Do you think the DET is willing to part with him even with his injury? I’ve been reading that DET Doesn’t have remove salary if they dont want to is that correct? Or do they feel pressured with the economy to offload salary?

        • http://proballnw.com Jon

          Oh, I misread that. I saw “I DON’T feel like I am screwing a team over…”

          I don’t really have any answers for those questions. I’m not sure what it would take to get Sizemore (who is currently penciled in as their 2010 starting 2B) nor do I know how he’s recovering from the injury. As far as Tigers payroll, the rumors that they want to cut back a bit are just rumors; I don’t know how serious they are about it. But just because they may prefer to move some big contract, it doesn’t mean they’re looking to make “salary dump” type of moves. If they’re moving guys like Granderson or Cabrera, they are looking for a great return.

  • eastcoastmariner

    Another name to keep in mind is Gerald Laird. The Rays need catching help and the Tigers are rumored to be shopping Laird

  • mw3

    Tampa gets
    Granderson
    Lowe
    Kelly/White

    Detroit gets
    Lopez
    Morrow
    Saunders
    Sonnanstine
    Kelly/White

    Seattle gets
    Jackson
    Crawford
    Aybar

  • moethedog

    How is Sizemore’s rehab going? Broke his fibula, I think, ini October.

    I like Jackson. He gobbles up innings. I like Morrow, too…but to add a quality LF like Crawford or Grandy AND a durable number 2….Let Morrow, Saunders (who I have no confidence in) and Lopez go.

    I like Morrow though. He has one really great season coming up at some point.

    Keith

  • number1felixfan

    Is Ichiro dead set on leading off? Cause if you could get Crawford and sign Hudson, Ichiro could easy drive in 100 runs this year hitting 3rd. I am in love with the idea of bringing in Crawford developing Ackley into a 2nd baseman and useing Hudson as a stop gap.

  • The Kid

    I just read a blog who linked an article that stated not to look too much into the rumors for a Jackson/Morrow trade. Although everything at this point is a dance, the talk surrounding the M’s is all very intriguing. Thank God the Mariners are finally their name brought up. Anywho, as far as my take on what we should do:

    I like Morrow, and believe in home-grown talent(i.e.: Phillies), but if he is the best trade bait, especially if something can be worked out for Jackson, Cabrera, or Crawford, I would deal him in a heartbeat. Great point by number1felixfan, if we can bring in Crawford, Ichiro would be an easy lock for 100 RBI. I feel Miguel Cabrera has the most raw talent of player in the majors, and would obviously be a huge contract but long term upgrade over any other option.

    Re-sign the King long term, sign Harden with an incentive laden deal, and go hard after Lackey. The Yankees signed two studs and win a championship. We have the Cy Young runner up, and bringing in a horse in Lackey and a big risk big reward guy in Harden could shape up the rotation beautifully. RRS and Snell will fill the back end nicely if Morrow and guys like Kelly/White are dealt for some much needed offense.

    I believe we have around $40 million to spend wisely, and I believe Big Z will do us right. What I have proposed may look something like this as it stands: Lackey-$10-12, Harden-$6-8, Crawford-$10. Not leaving much for the 3B or 1B, which is why it would be difficult to swing, but like I said, in Big Z I trust.

    • vertigoman

      I believe 40 mil is about right. That takes into account players signed and projected raises in regards to the projected budget.
      but we’ve already spent 7 million of that on Wilson and Griffey.
      maybe Lincoln isn’t lying and won’t restrain GMZ financially if possible.

  • harrison

    OKAY… I love playing GM

    Here ya go …

    Teams giving up players

    Mariners:
    Morrow
    Lopez
    Saunders
    Aardsma
    Hensley

    Tigers
    Cabera
    Jackson
    Granderson
    Sizemore

    Rays:
    Burrell
    Neimann
    Pena
    Ayabar
    Barnese

    Players Recieved

    Mariners:
    Pena
    Jackson
    Sizemore
    Ayabar

    Tigers:
    Morrow
    Lopez
    Saunders
    Hensley
    Burrell
    Neimann
    Barnese

    Rays:
    Cabera
    Granderson
    Aardsma

    • number1felixfan

      [moved by mod] your trade looks good personal wise but if the Rays and Tigers want to cut payroll I dont think the TIgers would take Burrell who is owed a ton of money and Cabrera although worth every penny of it is also getting paid like 15 million a year. Also remember that Tampa Bay has Desmond Jennings waiting for a position to open up and Crawford will be a free agent after this year and the Rays don’t think they can sign him long term.

      • http://proballnw.com Jon

        Good point on Jennings. They definitely don’t NEED to bring in a guy like Grandy. They’d probably be better off just going for the best possible haul.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I don’t think the Tigers would want Burrell either, but not because of money. You cleared a lot of space for them by moving over $25M in Cabrera, Granderson and Jackson, but keep in mind they also have Magglio and Guillen looking for at bats at DH.

      I’m also not sure the Rays would want to take on Cabrera’s contract. You cleared space for them in 2009, but down the road it could be difficult to manage for a team like them.

      • harrison

        LOL! I was only looking at talent … I didn’t think about the Mechanics and as for the outfield position I expect Crawford to traded this off-season. Thats just my own personal theory.

        • harrison

          I don’t actually think anything like that would happen. It was all just a matter of throwing out a possible trade. Because well… work was slow, it was fun and I miss my xbox LOL!

  • vertigoman

    Given our LF production this last season Crawford would be the biggest positional upgrade we could make. He fits the GMZ mold and park perfectly. We’d field four of the fielding bible award recipients and the entire FB OF! His upside is probably a park adjusted version of Mat Holliday. He’s a FA after this season so it also fits the Ackley timeline as well. If he’s a type A FA and he doesn’t cost a ton of talent then we could let him walk if need be and get a couple of picks.
    Granderson is cheaper than Crawford and is probably close to his caliber in LF. He has more power but hits LHP like a one eyed pirate with gout.

    I guess I’m in the minority here but I like Morrow more than Jackson. Well, actually I think they’re the same guy but Morrow has less wear and is under team control for cheap. But I’d take Jackson if it meant getting Crawford.

    Seattle gets:
    Crawford
    Jackson
    -10 mil in payroll

    TB gets:
    Granderson
    Lowe
    +4 mil in payroll

    Det gets:
    Morrow
    Lopez
    Saunders
    +5 mil in payroll

    I’d do this. The Rays might do this. Would Det. do this? I know they need to cut some payroll and this does that. They get the same player as Jackson only cheaper. THey fill 2B and get a cheap replacement in the OF. I think they only do this if they think Saunders can play center.

    Someone else that may be interesting is Navarro. Bill James thinks he’s a bad year rebound sure thing. I’d have to imagine the Rays would gladly give him away at around 3 mil for 2010

    Resign Bedard (incentive laden prove me contract)
    Sign O. Hudson and N.Johnson
    When the AL West.

    • mw3

      Detroit really looks like they are not getting equal value though that is a huge salary dump. The salaries for the Rays are almost a wash which is why I think that they include more salary. The Mariners are also giving up two mediocre pitchers (with considerable upside though) an average 2B and an unproven prospect for two All-Stars. The M’s will have to give up more to get Crawford.

      • vertigoman

        You might be right about Det. It really depends on how these players are valued. As M’s fans our own perception of Morrow, Lopez, Saunders and Lowe may well be tepid. But another org may view them as:
        Morrow=a top 10 pick with Ace potential and ML experience
        Lopez= a young cheap 2nd basemen with emerging power and average defense. 20-30 HR and 100rbi potential
        Lowe= a closer in the making
        Saunders= the number 2 prospect in the M’s org a year ago

        Would any of those descriptions be too far off?
        POV I guess

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      “I guess I’m in the minority here but I like Morrow more than Jackson.”

      I’m with you. If Morrow is going towards other pieces and Jackson is his replacement, cool. But I would be unwilling to trade Morrow with the primary return being Jackson. I really don’t like Jackson and would rather take my chances with Morrow, hoping he can improve his control.

  • number1felixfan

    [moved]

    Mod: let’s try and use the ‘reply’ buttons, guys. Especially in threads like this where there are a lot of different ideas flying around.

    • heychuck

      I think the amount of money that Seattle has to ‘burn’ is being overestimated here.

      Don’t forget they will have to pay players arbitration this year, especially Felix. They only have maybe 20mil to ‘burn’.

      I don’t see how they can take on a few big contracts in a trade AND sign FA’s.

  • skoorbo

    WARNING: Consume with salt.

    SEA: Pena, Granderson, Willis, Brignac
    TB: Morrow, Kelly, Laird
    DET: Moore

    Looking at service time and contract details (via cot’s) this would make a lot of sense if Detroit is really serious about cutting cost.

    • skoorbo

      Or you could swap Willis for Lopez, though to be honest I don’t think Detroit would want him.

    • Mariners121212

      Why would TB and DET possibly want to do this?? Especially TB. Lets be reasonable here guys.

      • skoorbo

        TB only has one year of control over Pena at 10$, Brignac Is expendable, Laird is a way better value than Navarro.

        DET would be clearing 20$ and receiving a pretty good prospect.

  • moethedog

    I love Granderson and hope the M’s steal him away…but if Detroit is cutting cost, why get rid of Granderson. He’s not costing them anything anyway.

    That part doeesn’t make sense…

    Keith

  • ernier

    I keep thinking that the Tigers might be able to free up salary by getting rid of just 1 or 2 guys, if one of the guys is Cabrera. I wonder if they’ve soured on Cabrera because of the incident at the end of the year when he got drunk and into a dispute with his wife before that critical game at the end of the season. Maybe they’d be happy to find someone to take his salary and they get a modest return of young players and they could then use some of that money on a free agent. I’d love to have Cabrera playing first for the M’s with Branyan as the everyday DH.

    • issymicen

      Cabrera hmmm… 26 years old 2010: 20mil 2011: 21mil 2012-13: 22mil 2014-15 22mil… I know he is a good player. Are the M’s willing to take on that much of salary. I am still getting use to the value of player, so taking that inconsideration does that mean at that high of a price tag and the mean years would that mean more players in return for Miggy? I guess what I am trying to say is that is alot of money going to a player not named Felix.

  • MarinerMan6

    I don’t think the M’s need a LF with Saunders developing for league minimum now and Ackley maybe ready in 2011. Plus Edwin Jackson for Brandon Morrow I would not do straight up. Morrow’s ceiling is higher all while paying him pennies. When you factor in the cost associated with each I prefer Morrow.

    Crawford would be interesting but he is a FA after next year so unless you are signing him to an extension he could be a rental player and cost you some good young prospects in the process.

  • http://proballnw.com Dustin Shires

    If you want to trade for Carl Crawford, feel free, but remember, we’d only have him under contract for 2010. And if you think he’s going to be a cheap extension, that’s another dream to tackle.

    I’d rather not unload Saunders for one year of Carl Crawford.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I’d be cool with Crawford for one year under the right circumstances. First of all, he’s a legitimate star in this league, and would help Seattle immensely on both sides of the ball as they look to win in 2010. If Seattle sputters out of the gate and is out of it by midseason, he makes a great trade chip. And he’s also a Type A who wouldn’t accept arbitration, so at very least you get a parting gift.

      All depends on the deal, of course. Wouldn’t do a 5-for-1 or something like that, but the three way deal between these teams would allow Detroit to use Granderson or whoever to do some of the heavy lifting.

      • vertigoman

        Just read on Bakers Blog that they plan on playing Ackley at 2B. The way I read it, that means now and then they’ll evaluate during ST.
        THat’s news.
        I was very dismissive elsewhere of people that penciled him as our 2b glove of the future. At the time it was based solely on his college coaches comments.
        Evidently, GMZ likes the idea of kicking tires on this one.
        Does this make a move for a LFer more probable? Seems like it.
        Ackley’s bat at 2b can be summed up in one word, drool.

  • Letsplaytwo

    This is a nice site. I am a Tigers fan and I will bring that perspective to the trade possibilities. Based on how Mr. Dombrowski usually trades he won’t go after:

    – Lopez, because Sizemore is rated in the top 5 prospects at the position by most scouts and even if his ankle slows him down in the Spring Santiago could play 2B for a while. Plus that .303 OBP for Lopez is scary

    – Saunders, because he just may be a 4-A player

    – anyone who is expensive or will be a free agent before 2012. Detroit will shed about $50 million after the 2010 season in bloated contracts. I think Mr. D may be targeting his off season moves to acquire players who will really contribute then.

    A deal that I think could work would be Jackson for Morrow and Gillies, and maybe one of the relief prospects. this would put a player in the pipeline in case the Tigers do trade Granderson and Casper Wells is not the answer in CF.

    I can’t figure a good three way with Tampa that produces fair return for all three teams.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      Thanks for visiting. I agree that your Tigers would be better off sticking with Sizemore, but that doesn’t mean I still don’t want him!

      I disagree with your Saunders comment, because you could say that about any prospect. Anyone could turn out to be a 4A player. Saunders struggling in 100 ABs doesn’t prove anything.

      I would also want no part of your Morrow/Gillies/reliever for Jackson deal. Terrible deal for the M’s. Jackson just isn’t good enough to command that much in trade (from a smart team).

      • Letsplaytwo

        This is why unless the three way deal develops that there is not a good match between DET and SEA. The Tigers, rightly or wrongly, won’t trade Jackson even up for Morrow. Until the 2nd half last year there were serious discussions out here as to who was the Tiger’s ace, Verlander or Jackson(?) Whatever the reason for his fade Jackson was a legit All Star in 2009. Morrow has promise, he just doesn’t have a resume yet. If you don’t think you are a contender in 2010 Seattle should not consider trading for Jackson. And since the Tigers can have Jackson for two more years just by going to arbitration they won’t be motivated unless one of their other holes (lead off, SS, 3B after one more year of Inge) can be addressed as a result.

  • M-Pops

    SEA = Crawford, Jackson
    DET = Morrow, Saunders, Brignac
    TB = Granderson, Alex Avila, Lowe, Aumont

    Seattle may have to throw in another B prospect or two to even things out, but this looks pretty fair. Big gamble for the M’s.

    Letsplaytwo, what do Tiger fans think of Avila? His bat seems solid, how’s his D?

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      Avila would be helpful, but he’s not going anywhere. He’s the son of Detroit’s assistant GM.

      Also, why does everyone seem so opposed to dealing Aardsma?

    • Letsplaytwo

      Avila is thought by scouts to be an above average offensive prospect with average defensive upside. I can’t see the Tigers giving up the cost controlled young Avila in this type of deal.

      Here is a version of the deal I would do:

      SEA = Crawford / Jackson

      DET = Morrow / Jennings / Brignac

      TB = Granderson / G. Laird / Saunders / Aumont

      The Tigers have not had a true lead off man since Tony Phillips. Jennings would potentially provide that. I consider Brignac a “C” prospect but he might fill a need in DET. TB does not need offense from the catcher spot and Laird is an elite defensive catcher coming off his career worst offensive year. If TB is thinking contention next year Laird would be a safer bet with a young pitching staff. TB would have to think that Saunders is the real thing to pull the trigger on this version.

  • StandinPat

    Jackson is not demonstrably better than Morrow, and while Crawford is a star, he’s only got one more year on his contract. You are basically Trading Lowe and Morrow to make Morrow a safer bet for 2010, but lowering his future upside while increasing his cost after that, and trading Aumont and Saunders to try and get what would basically be one season of Saunders at his peak.

    Doesn’t really maximize your value. Morrow and Lowe would prob net you a better, less costly pitcher from a lot of other teams, and i really think Morrow > Jackson in 2011 and beyond….and it may not even be close.

    Saunders + for Granderson may make some sense, just because you’re basically turning the clock forward on Saunders and have him for several years at the trade off of the increased cost.

    The M’s are in a pickle, they have some young talent that’s really close to contributing, but if they wanna compete this year, they prob can’t rely on said players, but those guys are also their best trade chips.

  • Mike Rogers

    As a Tigers fan, Jon, I do want to dispell the “reports” that the Tigers need to slash payroll. Illitch hasn’t said a word about it and Dombrowski continues to vehemently deny it. When the payroll was maxed last year Dombrowski was forthright and candid that they couldn’t add salary much at all and he hasn’t really mislead the media in the past, so I believe that the Tigers aren’t slashing payroll. Just a bit annoying to see the national media refuses to pick up what the Detroit beat writers have been saying for weeks.

    • http://proballnw.com Jon

      I hear ya.