Trader Jack

by ~ December 21st, 2010 at 10:17 pm

Jack Zduriencik has spent a long time establishing a reputation as one of the premier talent evaluators in baseball.  Immediately before coming to the Seattle Mariners he was a very good scouting director for the Milwaukee Brewers, good enough to become the first non-general manager to win Baseball America’s executive of the year award.  But while all his previous work earned him a chance to become a general manager– baseball’s oldest general manager, by the way– no prior achievements guarantee him success pulling the strings.  He has his own staff doing much of the work he used to do.

Where am I going with this? 

MLB.com’s Thomas Harding:

The Rockies were reported to be interested in the Mariners’ David Aardsma, who went to Cherry Creek High in the Denver area, but multiple sources with knowledge of both teams told MLB.com that the Mariners are in search of an impact bat and there isn’t a fit with the Rockies.

What exactly did Zduriencik ask for when Dan O’Dowd came calling?  I don’t know, but it makes me wonder about Zduriencik’s negotiating tactics.

Zduriencik made some waves last summer when it was reported that, following the San Francisco Giants inquisition of Aardsma, he countered with Aardsma and Jose Lopez for Pablo Sandoval, a laughable proposal especially considering the contract statuses of Aardsma and Lopez.  One doofy proposal shouldn’t be enough to bother other teams, but I’ve been hearing that he’s made a habit of it.

Furthermore, we know that the New York Yankees and many other teams were upset with the way Zduriencik handled the Cliff Lee negotiations last summer.  You may recall that Yankees GM Brian Cashman thought he had a deal in place with Zduriencik, but Zduriencik went to the Rangers at the last possible second and gave them a chance to beat the Yankee offer. Cashman and reps from other teams voiced their disapproval.  And when Zduriencik’s office deflected some of the blame for the Josh Lueke situation back to Rangers GM Jon Daniels, I for one thought Daniels came across as annoyed by Zduriencik’s claims when quoted for news stories.

Zduriencik doesn’t have to babysit for Kevin Towers or add Andrew Friedman to his offseason bowling team, but if he’s continually rubbing people the wrong way it’s bad for business.  How many times can he make obnoxious trade offers, shake up the status quo and otherwise irk the men he has to deal with before it bites him in the ass? His colleagues aren’t going to cut him out of the loop for getting on their nerves, but it could limit the opportunities presented to Zduriencik.

I’m not saying that Zduriencik has been burning bridges.  I’m simply intrigued by what I keep reading and hearing about Zduriencik’s interactions with other teams.  If the Mariners have a player that another team really wants or feels they need, I doubt the GM of that team will hold much of a grudge.  But if the Mariners are offering something that can be had elsewhere (such as Aardsma), might other teams look at the other options first?  GMs are very busy and have a finite amount of time to get things done.  If they think Zduriencik fools around and makes things more difficult than they need to be, might they look at the other options before calling Zduriencik?

Perhaps.

I’m not accusing Zduriencik of doing anything wrong because in the end I only know what is reported and what people with the connections tell me, and we all know that that information isn’t consistently reliable anyway.  And maybe his supposed hardball mentality is a good thing.  I’m just curious to know where it goes from here.  It’s something I’ll be keeping an eye on.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4OCAE35YZZLIKJQHGM3V3WFEK4 James Mason

    I am not understanding why everyone is down on Jack. For the first time the Mariners have a GM that: 1- Is good at evaluating a players value, 2- Reads the market well and know when a player is worth the most, 3- Isn’t impulsively taking the first fair trade, but is willing to listen until he finds the team willing to give the most. You are listening to a Rockies source saying that Jack was asking for too much, It is hard to imagine that the Rockies are the most desperate team and willing to give up the most for Aardsma. Stop reading too much into rumors this time of year. Jack has made a lot of very good moves for this club. I think you should see what he is able to get before saying that he was asking for too much.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not down on Jack nor is this post about the Colorado rumor specifically. That blurb just happened to give me an opportunity to riff about Zduriencik the negotiator, which is something has come up in conversation often between me and the baseball/Mariners people I like to chat with.

      Some well connected people believe that Zduriencik has mucked up some connections around the league (not saying he’s burnt bridges completely) and all I’m saying in this post is that I am interested in seeing how this perception of Jack the negotiator evolves as he continues to run the team.

      • Anonymous

        I think you have an interesting view of Jack and it should be continued in his future dealings. However, ultimately, he will be viewed on whether he puts together a competitive team and at this point in his career he has failed and failed badly. His player evaluation reputation has not shown itself for the Mariners and he better hope Smoak really develops as he was the keystone to the Lee trade. This especially looks bad if the Mariner catchers continue to be abysmal and Montero actually develops. So far, he is NOT performing as GM and I suspect if this years team doesn’t improve significantly, he will be out.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4OCAE35YZZLIKJQHGM3V3WFEK4 James Mason

    I am not understanding why everyone is down on Jack. For the first time the Mariners have a GM that: 1- Is good at evaluating a players value, 2- Reads the market well and knows when a player is worth the most, 3- Isn’t impulsively taking the first fair trade, but is willing to listen until he finds the team willing to give the most. You are listening to a Rockies source saying that Jack was asking for too much, It is hard to imagine that the Rockies are the most desperate team and willing to give up the most for Aardsma. Stop reading too much into rumors this time of year. Jack has made a lot of very good moves for this club. I think you should see what he is able to get before saying that he was asking for too much.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4OCAE35YZZLIKJQHGM3V3WFEK4 James Mason

    Sorry for the double post. I guess that I am more adamant than I thought about this

  • http://twitter.com/Shawnuel Shawn McLaughlin

    I’d love to pry Seth Smith from the Rockies. Not sure that a request for him is out of line for Aardsma, but it sure would look better to the Rockies if we ask for Stewart or Ianetta first.

  • Anonymous

    Weren’t the Nats asking the moon for Willingham over this past season? Can anyone give a reason why Jack shouldn’t play the game like everyone else?

    Now how he interacts with other GMs is an interesting thought. Perhaps he comes off as shifty or obnoxious; we don’t know. Rubbing Cashman the wrong way was probably a rookie mistake. Hopefully he learned a lesson. Or maybe he just had one of those opportunities to grab the bag and run and went for it. As for the Pablo Sandoval thing… who cares?

    There was a guy in my fantasy baseball league who was competitive every year because he stole talent through lopsided trades with lesser GMs. Did I appreciate his tactics? Not really. Would I have traded with him if he gave me the players I wanted in return? Of course I would have. Was I afraid he’d rip me off? No. Would you be? If another team is benefitted by Z’s proposal then all personal feelings are beside the point. These GMs are big boys. To blackball Z from future dealings is bad business.

  • http://twitter.com/Harrison_Crow Harrison

    The new york daily news did a nice piece on the “what if” trade of Cliff Lee from the perspective of including Nunez in the deal.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2010/10/30/2010-10-30_eduardo_nunez_taking_over_for_derek_jeter_at_shortstop_is_part_of_the_yankees_pl.html

    It’s an interesting read. If for the simple fact that it points out David Adams never played another game the rest of the season and that Jack Zduriencik was well within his right to go to another team after Adams failed the physical.

    The Yankees refused to replace Adams with another player the Mariners felt was of an equal caliber and outside of the Yankees org I haven’t heard a lot of lavish praise of Nunez. I believe he’s vastly over rated. But that’s typical of the Yankees pedestal prospects.

    I’m not so biased that I wouldn’t say that I hadn’t thought about the subject of whether Jack is starting to get under people’s skins around the league. But I do sincerely think that a larger deal is being made of it. A quick example is Dayton Moore. The Blue Jays (as well as others) balked at the initial asking price of Greinke and when Moore pulled the trigger on the Milwaukee deal everyone responded with “Is that all?”

    There is certainly a fine line and I think when you attempt to walk it, in the same way that Jack has, there are certainly going to be times you are going to frustrate other GMs. But I’m not worried he’s been in the business for such a length of time that he understands the way things work.

    When we start hearing General Managers bad mouth Jack through the media it only makes me feel like they finally hired the right guy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=132400023 Turner Wingo

      Yah I was going to post something about this. It was a health issue with Adams that sunk the deal not simply that the Rangers deal was better. The Yankees were just pissed that he wouldn’t take whatever deal they offered. Like the time they claimed collusion because Colon wasn’t traded to them.

      Plus the casual baseball fan assumes Cashman et. all must be the “smart guys” since the Yankees win a lot, so it’s easy for them to spin blame for failed trades on other clubs.

  • http://twitter.com/AlexCarson AC

    Meh. So, some other team didn’t fleece him which made them sad pandas. The Yankees, like the Mariners in the Lueke situation, had to say something to their fans to explain why the Lee trade went wrong.

    Insert cliche about mole hills and mountains.

    There’s probably some truth to both the Mariners’ and Rangers’ stories on Lueke, and Jack probably should have just taken responsibility in his press conference.

    I guess we could go back to the days of Bavasi’s trades, and have all the GMs just love our guy to death. Or, uh, you know, we can live with the guy we have not being liked because he pushes for value in return.

  • Anonymous

    Wow we FINALLY have a GM that doesn’t bend over and take it from all these other shister GMs in the league. Boohoo!

    EVERYTHING Bavasi did helped every GM and ruined our franchise. Z is replenishing what Bavasi destroyed for us. Cashman is gonna cry and get all upset because Z spun Lee over to the Rangers?! You bet the Yanks should be upset, because that trade costed them the World Series and they KNOW IT!!! Maybe next time they will step up to the plate and continue dishing out top prospects to get their man they desire.

    Remember folks THIS IS BUSINESS! We hear this all the time regarding team/player relations and potential trades. Why is it any different in GM/GM relations?

    The Mariner’s are 1 of ONLY 2 teams in MLB that has NEVER made it to the World Series, and currently are in rebuilding mode, so all GMs should expect Jack Z to attempt to ask for the world.

    Something else to consider in all of this? The RP market right now is more rediculous than I have EVER seen (ie: multi years on everyone, with higher prices than expected). So, Aardsma on a 1-yr deal is a lot more valuable than a team committing to a 3yr $12-15M deal with another RP…especially for a setup RP, let alone a Closer. There is major value in Aardsma with just that alone. But here is the thing: Jack Z doesn’t have to trade him out of desperation, we can keep him, or Z will wait until a Closer in Spring Training goes down on a contenders team and get a MINT for Aardsma then when his value shoots even more through the roof. And if Huson Street goes down early in the season again, I would almost bet Z gets his man from the Rockies…it would just have taken a little longer for him to get him.

    IT’S A BUSINESS REMEMBER?

  • Anonymous

    How about the Lee to Seattle trade. Let’s look at how “during the process” GMs and Fans could have been pissed:

    1. Philly’s trade Cliff Lee to Seattle for really decent prospects in order to acquire Halladay.

    2. Philly’s later trade for Oswalt and half of his salary $8M, which was the equivalent of what they would have paid for Cliff Lee in 2010 (ie: Fans scratching their head wondering ‘why’ they Lee trade to Seattle then.

    3. Seattle didn’t start great, so needed to dish Lee to the highest bidder, and attempt to get back at least what Seattle gave up. (Seattle fans depressed, but history of being use to it).

    4. Lee traded to Texas for Smoak and other really decent prospects, and Texas fans are estatic and LOVE it! Yanks pissed, because they didn’t get what they want (let’s pause to shed a tear here).

    5. Cliff Lee turns on Yanks and Texas in the offseason and signs back with the Philly’s, while losing a draft pick.

    In all of the above events every step was business for EVERYONE involved. In the end though it hurt the Yanks the worst in 2010, but it hurt Texas the most in the long run in the AL West by pulling Smoak/others and moving them to Seattle, while having Texas wait on a draft pick to develop for years in the minors. Jack Z weakened a team slightly in the AL West, so I say that Texas loses the most out of this deal, while Seattle is rebuilding with MLB ready players.

    Something else to consider in all of this is that the Philly’s probably would not have traded for Oswalt if Lee was still there, and they probably planned that for 2010, with the intention of stepping up an aggressive offer and landing Lee this offseason. So the Philly’s loaded up on Seattle prospects (not as good as what seattle got from Texas albeit), trade for Oswalt, and then resign Cliff Lee this offseason giving up a 1st round pick that should take years to see the majors for Texas. THIS WAS OUTRIGHT BRILLIANT GM WORK FROM THE PHILLY’S standpoint!!!! Totally amazing, and I’m not even a Philly’s fan ‘yet’ that is!

    If anything all GM’s in MLB should be pissed and upset with the Philly’s for literally planning, designing, and developing the strongest team in MLB for about $50M less in payroll than the Yanks, and they still have Blanton’s contract to move, while paying Cliff Lee $11M in 2010!

    Again THIS IS BUSINESS, and if anything the Philly Fans should have learned through all of this NOT to question the decsions of the Philly’s Brass!

  • Anonymous

    I get your point Jon but I’m still a believer in Z. Like all of us he doesn’t get everything right and he’s not prescient and like a lot of people I wish he hadn’t traded Morrow but I still think he’s a pretty good GM. I wouldn’t trade him for any other current GM in the game.

  • Anonymous

    not to worry…the Mariners are not going to win the W.S. no matter who is on the team because the current owner does not care and that is how the current management approaches things.how can you say Z is a great evaluator after 2010 and the off season…he’s done nothing.

  • Anonymous

    Acquiring prospects is just as much good fortune as it is skill. I find it quite interesting that in only his second Mariner offseason that Z is perceived as anything other than what he truly is, a builder and accumulator of talent. Ladies and Gentlemen I have been a M’s fan my entire life and have seen the management mistakes time and again. I live in the midwest (Iowa) and watched Jack build an incredibly talented Brewers squad with very very limited resources. When he was hired by the M’s I was excited, after the first offseason I knew he was accomodating Lincoln’s butts in seats philosophy (acquiring marginal talent with upside to give a team hope and sell tickets). His only mistake was attempting to win last season and now true colors of Z officially begin.
    Ackley….Smoak….Saunders….Pineda….Leuke….Cortes after only one season each of these players will have a huge impact on the team over the course of the next five years. There might even be a star in this group but certainly all of them will be quality big league players. This formula (I call it the Twins constitution) of acquiring talent and developing that talent is the surest way to build a competitive winning franchise year after year, free agency and big time trades are the surest way to destroy the foundation of a struggling franchise. Z will build a competitive team but to think it will happen in less than 3 years is ludicrous, he needs time. Let’s hope upper management has the integrity to follow through this time…… I’m tired of losing seasons….

    We may have another 100 loss season on our hands but it will be the most intriguing 100 loss team since the days of Buhner, Edgar, Visquel, Grif, Wilson, Olerud, Rodriguez, Johnson, how the hell did these boys not make a WS again…