As I watched the wonderful YouTube video that Dave of USSM tweeted (if you haven’t seen it you’re in for a treat) I really came to understand just how insane of a 3rd basemen Adrian Beltre was. I mean I always knew he was good, and watching him day in and day out was a great experience, but watching plays in rapid succession really helped it sink in. With that sling shot arm and his trademark bare-handed bunt plays, we were spoiled in the Northwest to see that glove for as long as we did.

Which got me to thinking. With all of the Hall of Fame talk that’s been going on recently I wondered for second if Adrian might have a chance. My immediate reaction was ‘no way’. He’s got a “Hall of Fame” glove for sure, but is that enough? Then another HoF glove-first 3rd baseman came to mind: Brooks Robinson.

Knowing his reputation with the glove (the best defensive third baseman ever) I looked up some offensive numbers.

Slash Line
Beltre- .270/.325/.453
Robinson- .267/.322/.401

.wOBA
Beltre- .335
Robinson- .322

Based on those numbers the picture that we get is that these players were strikingly similar offensively, with the edge going to Beltre.  Of course, Robinson played in an offensively repressed era that featured taller mounds and expanded strike zones during his prime years (hence the higher WAR totals below despite similar slash lines), but Beltre had to hit at Safeco during most of his prime. Memorial Stadium in Baltimore was only 309 feet down the left field line, while Safeco is 331 feet. Let’s take a look at their best seasons according to Wins Above Replacement.

Click to enlarge

Aside from his monster year in ’04, it’s hard to say he’s even comparable to Robinson, but Robinson did break into the league at 18 and stayed for 22 years while Beltre is only on his 11th full year in the big leagues.  If he can come up with a couple 5 win seasons, the gap will have closed a bit.

Moving on from the Robinson, I think we can all agree that Hall of Fame defense is Hall of Fame defense, and through my eyes at least, Beltre has it. But should we consider third base to be a position where premium defense can get you in the Hall? Why not? A ground ball that gets past shortstop or second is usually just a single, but if it sneaks past the hot corner, it’s got a good chance to be extra bases.

Although it is a rarity, there are a few precedents for glove-first Hall of Famers. Ozzie Smith is everyone’s favorite defensive wizard and he only batted .262/.337/.328! On the other side of second base we have Bill Mazeroski who is regarded as the best defensive second basemen of all time. His slash line is even worse, .260/.299/.367. They both, however, have huge clutch post season home runs to their credit, Smith in Game 5 of the 1985 NLCS and Mazeroski with the clinching home run in the 1960 World Series, and we all know how the voters love nostalgia. If those two can get in on defense, Beltre being at least an average hitter could have a chance.

And finally, a point I believe we should all think hard about. Should a player with only one elite skill be enshrined in Cooperstown, or should they have to have multiple elite skills? Brooks Robinson was a good hitter, but was hardly an elite hitter. Much like Beltre, Robinson had one great year, followed by some pretty good years. If Robinson did not have his Gold Glove reputation (16 consecutive), I can confidently say he would not be in the Hall of Fame. Same goes for The Wizard and Maz.

Adrian Beltre is arguably the best defensive third baseman in the game today whether you go by the metrics, the scouts, players or whoever, and it’s hard to imagine anyone being significantly better throughout the history of the game. He probably won’t reach any of the magical offensive milestones like 500 homers. Heck, he might not even get 400. But if at the end of his career he has a couple good October moments, maybe a ring or two, and he can still compare himself to the Human Vacuum, he’s got a shot, especially considering the way focus is shifting to defense. It probably won’t hurt that he now plays for THE NATION, either.

]]> http://www.proballnw.com/01-2010/beltre-a-vacuum-and-a-whole-lotta-mess/feed/ 12 http://www.proballnw.com/11-2009/did-you-know/ http://www.proballnw.com/11-2009/did-you-know/#comments Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:47:17 +0000 Jon http://www.proballnw.com/?p=2825 Fun fact via Shannon Drayer today: The Seattle Mariners have won at least one Gold Glove for 23 straight seasons.

The Gold Glove is a pretty silly award, but that’s still impressive!

1987 – Mark Langston (P)
1988 – Mark Langston (P), Harold Reynolds (2B)
1989 – Harold Reynolds (2B)
1990 – Harold Reynolds (2B), Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1991 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1992 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1993 – Omar Vizquel (SS), Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1994 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1995 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1996 – Jay Buhner (OF), Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1997 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1998 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
1999 – Ken Griffey Jr. (OF)
2000 – John Olerud (1B)
2001 – Mike Cameron (OF), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2002 – John Olerud (1B), Bret Boone (2B), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2003 – John Olerud (1B), Bret Boone (2B), Mike Cameron (OF), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2004 – Bret Boone (2B), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2005 – Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2006 – Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2007 – Adrian Beltre (3B), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2008 – Adrian Beltre (3B), Ichiro Suzuki (OF)
2009 – Ichiro Suzuki (OF)

Now, it would really be awesome if the Mariners could get a streak like this going for the Fielding Bible Awards.  The streak currently stands at two (Fielding Bible Awards started in 2006, but Seattle was shutout in 2007):

2008 – Adrian Beltre (3B)
2009 – Jack Wilson (SS), Franklin Gutierrez (CF), Ichiro Suzuki (RF)